The Missing Evidence II - New Ripper Documentary - Aug 2024

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Tom,

To clarify, I believe that the poster that you mean was treated unfairly is Rookie Detective, and I agree that earlier in this thread he was addressed in a way that was non-constructive and unkind.

Yes, Rookie Detective is who I meant. Thanks for clarifying that, Lewis.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[The Rookie Detective]

Thank you for your kind words Tom.

I appreciate you taking the time to highlight it.


You are one of the elite members on this forum and so I am humbled by your comment.

Full admiration and respect for you


RD

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

No evidence that the torso victims were murdered?

Hmmm...




There's also no evidence that the Ripper was an adult

There's also no evidence that a pregnant Jackson didn't commit suicide and murder her own baby by slowly dismembering herself


If we strip everything down to that we know...


Someone used a knife to cut up some women...

Oh no, we can't even say that...

There's no evidence that lots of different men copied each other and took a victim each...


What a load of rubbish.



Don't tarnish those who support Lechmere at the killer with the same brush as those of us who believe that the torso VICTIMS were MURDERED.

Otherwise, you do those women who were butchered by the Torso killer a great disservice

It doesn't downgrade the Canonical Ripper victims in any way.


Or we choose to believe that all the dismembered bodies found just died of natural causes...

Or suicide

It's so ridiculous it's laughable



RD

Hi RD,

I believe it was Trevor Marriott who used to make this point. With the various Torso victims, a specific cause of death couldn't be established, so although murder seems highly likely, one can't rule out something like a botched back street abortion with the body then being dismembered for disposal.

[Geddy2112]

While I agree with Tom in part- that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I see Christer’s work being attacked when he’s not here to defend himself

Thanks for the post. 'Attacked' is a strong word and provides incorrect conations in my mind. 'Challenged' is a better word in my opinion. Regardless, I'm sure Stephen Knight is not a member of this board since he has passed so he can't defend attacks against his theory. (I'm sure if I look I can find some) Neither is Patricia Cornwall etc etc and I'm sure, again without looking, could find 'attacks' against their work. What makes Christer 'special?'
For me if someone has gone on the record, in film, print or social media then the risk they take is having their words 'challenged' without reply. Christer wrote a book regarding JtR and appeared in a 'documentary' as well 'attacking' Charles Allan Lechmere. CAL is not here to defend himself, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. (And yes I've read your other post stating 'welcome to Ripperology.')
So sorry for me if he puts his name to it, he has to accept it's going to be challenged and more often than not without his ability to defend such challenges. Unless of course Christer is a unique case and deserves special treatment, sorry not trying to be an arse but I hate double standards, thank you. Have a great weekend.

[The Rookie Detective]

Hi RD,

I believe it was Trevor Marriott who used to make this point. With the various Torso victims, a specific cause of death couldn't be established, so although murder seems highly likely, one can't rule out something like a botched back street abortion with the body then being dismembered for disposal.

Now that is an excellent post

I can see how the case of Elizabeth Jackson could be considered under this category because we know based on her multiple reports that Jackson was not looking forward to having Faircloth's baby.

She would certainly have a motive to seek an abortion.


Where the abortionist angle falls down for me, is the sheer number of torso victims found and the evidence to suggest that the Pinchin Street torso at least was mutilated post-mortem.

There were SOME of the torso victims who did have clean cuts that resembled someone who knew how to dissect, but this was not consistent across the series that spanned decades; from the early 1870's to at least 1902 in Lambeth.


It's also important to remember that the Pinchin Street torso was listed for some considerable time as a final RIPPER victim; even surpassing Coles inclusion as a listed victim.

It was only the subsequent construct of the "Canonical 5" that pushed the likes of Coles, McKenzie, Tabram and the Pinchin Street torso into the shadows.

This was done to push through an agenda.

The agenda being that the Police needed to save face and give the reason for why they were never competent enough to catch him as being that he died shortly after MJK.

Hence the rise of Druitt and Co.


By containing the series to just 5 victims; it gave the police an "out" for why they never succeeded. It also helped to push the rhetoric surrounding the Ripper and thus he then becomes almost a legendary figure with inhuman capabilities.


In reality, the Ripper was nobody special, but the police and press had to make him so just for the sake of the press making money and the police saving face.

That's why IMO, the Canonical 5 is one of the aspects of the Ripper case that shows a great disservice to so many other victims.


Once we step out of the constraints of putting our faith into random senior policeman who wrote retrospective lists of "suspects" to make it look like they always knew who the killer was, then we begin to see the truth of the case.

The police wanted to retain control and so what better way than to make the world think they always knew.


In reality, they picked random local lunatics like Kosminski, mixed them with Druitt and added a pinch of Ostrog...and then implied it was one of them...but not directly or catagorically.


Funny that.


But I digress...


I do recall how it was Trevor who believed that the Torso women were not victims, but were all botched abortions.

That is despite only Jackson with any evidence of having been pregnant.



I just wonder why after dismembering the Whitehall victim, the abortionist then chose to try and hide his botched work in the cellar of the new hub of the Police, rather than just dump ALL the bodies in the Thames.


The thing is, the man who placed the Whitehall victim in the cellar, was NOT trying to HIDE the body; they were just trying to hide the victims IDENTITY.


And for me, that speaks of murder rather than a botched abortion.



I have no idea which suspect Trevor favours, but if I was a betting man, i would imagine it's not someone who falls outside the Canonical 5 suspects, and certainly not someone who could have murdered and dismembered the Torso victims as well.


I can understand why some don't feel comfortable stepping out of the idea that MJK was the last victim; because essentially it kills the idea of so many populist suspects that were pedaled by the inept senior police officers at the time and subsequently.


Ultimately, the police never caught him, but they also never had a clue who he was.

The posthumous lists of names that include obvious local lunatics and psychotics are only there to try and make the police look like they at least knew something.


RD

[Fiver]

Hi Paddy, and thank you for the welcome.

Christer and Stow have also won in the sense that they have succeeded in convincing a large number of Youtube posters (and probably others) that Cross is guilty.

The Missing Evidence has 2M views on Youtube. Lemmino's Enduring Mystery of Jack the Ripper has 10M views.

The House of Lechmere has less than 8k subscribers on Youtube. Ripper Tours has 31k subscribers.

Ripper Tours has 43k followers on Facebook. House of Lechmere has 541. Christer has 193.

Lechmerians are just a vocal fringe view.

[John Wheat]

The Missing Evidence has 2M views on Youtube. Lemmino's Enduring Mystery of Jack the Ripper has 10M views.

The House of Lechmere has less than 8k subscribers on Youtube. Ripper Tours has 31k subscribers.

Ripper Tours has 43k followers on Facebook. House of Lechmere has 541. Christer has 193.

Lechmerians are just a vocal fringe view.

The majority of Lechmerians have also been duped.

[Fiver]

I recall Ed Stow saying on numerous occasions that he was long ago in touch with Lechmere's descendants and made them fully aware of his theory.

Last I heard, Butler was sleeping with one of Lechmere's descendants, Susan Clapp, another fascist.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It’s the strange level of certainty that they appear to have which I don’t understand. Based on what? He was provably there.

[John Wheat]

It’s the strange level of certainty that they appear to have which I don’t understand. Based on what? He was provably there.

I don't get it either Herlock. He found a dead body. There is zero evidence Lechmere murdered anyone.

Cheers John

[Geddy2112]

It’s the strange level of certainty that they appear to have which I don’t understand. Based on what? He was provably there.

..and the name change thingy, which in the case of Ed is beautifully ironic. Anyway my theory is Lechmere and Cross are two different people and it's a complete mix up. After all Paul at the inquest never identified him... blah blah blah etc...


To be fair I think one video had 10 RED FLAGS (or more) and Scobie mentions the 'many independent data.' I've also seen Christer state there are numerous reasons for his guilt but they certainly now want to distance themselves from 'He found a body' to 'he was found near the body' because apparently that makes all the difference. I'm struggling to see how it makes a difference but apparently it does. The Lechmerians do not want 'found a body' associated with their theory because it's what anti-Lechmerians use to claim his innocence.

Edit to Add... See John Wheat has just gone and verified it by saying 'he found a dead body' haha

[Fiver]

It's also important to remember that the Pinchin Street torso was listed for some considerable time as a final RIPPER victim; even surpassing Coles inclusion as a listed victim.

It was only the subsequent construct of the "Canonical 5" that pushed the likes of Coles, McKenzie, Tabram and the Pinchin Street torso into the shadows.

This was done to push through an agenda.

The agenda being that the Police needed to save face and give the reason for why they were never competent enough to catch him as being that he died shortly after MJK.

Hence the rise of Druitt and Co.


By containing the series to just 5 victims; it gave the police an "out" for why they never succeeded. It also helped to push the rhetoric surrounding the Ripper and thus he then becomes almost a legendary figure with inhuman capabilities.


In reality, the Ripper was nobody special, but the police and press had to make him so just for the sake of the press making money and the police saving face.

That's why IMO, the Canonical 5 is one of the aspects of the Ripper case that shows a great disservice to so many other victims.


Once we step out of the constraints of putting our faith into random senior policeman who wrote retrospective lists of "suspects" to make it look like they always knew who the killer was, then we begin to see the truth of the case.

The police wanted to retain control and so what better way than to make the world think they always knew.


In reality, they picked random local lunatics like Kosminski, mixed them with Druitt and added a pinch of Ostrog...and then implied it was one of them...but not directly or catagorically.

The Pinchin Street Torso was dismissed as a Ripper victim from the beginning by the police.

And the police were nowhere near as unified as you state. MeNaughton's views were anything but universal.

* Abberline dismissed Kosminski and Druitt as suspects. He favored George Chapman, but said nobody knew for sure.
* Littlechild favored Tumblety and appears to have dismissed all of McNaughton's suspects.
* Reid thought there were 9 victims killed between 1888 and 1892. That appears to dismiss Kosminki and definitely dismissed Druitt. In 1912 he said nobody knew who the Ripper was, specifically dismissing all of McNaughton's suspects.
* Smith said none of the police knew who the Ripper was and specifically dismissed Kosminski.
* Arnold though there were only 4 victims.
* Dew thought that Emma Smith and Martha Tabram were Ripper victims. He had no suspect.

[Elamarna]

..and the name change thingy, which in the case of Ed is beautifully ironic. Anyway my theory is Lechmere and Cross are two different people and it's a complete mix up. After all Paul at the inquest never identified him... blah blah blah etc...

There really is no doubt that Cross and Lechmere are the same person.

Cross gave his address as the same address Lechmere is recorded at in the 1891 census. He is listed as a Carman.
Pickfords have no employment records, which is why it is impossible to trace him there under either name.

To suggest they are different people is simply unrealistic, and undermines the arguments against him.

Steve

[Geddy2112]

Elamarna Steve I was just being pedantic. I know theories are around about other Lechmeres and mix ups etc hence the smiley.
I don't take them seriously. I'm a big fan of your book and the way it's presented in a measured and unbiased approach so I realise Cross and Lechmere are one in the same.
Thanks.

[Elamarna]

Posted far too soon , ignore