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The Missing Evidence II - New Ripper Documentary - Aug 2024

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  • The Missing Evidence II - New Ripper Documentary - Aug 2024

    No it's not in the pipeline, that I'm aware of but if it was would the outcome be the same?

    Some issues I had with it...

    1) The animations showing Lechmere basically on top of poor Polly, we know from statements this is not the case so more 'middle of the road.'

    2) KC Scobie's part in the production that Christer so vehemently relies on. We hear Scobie was mislead, if true what can be added to allow him the bigger picture?

    3) Has anything come to light in the last few years that would allow the documentary to NOT finger Lechmere in the crime?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Geddy2112 View Post
    No it's not in the pipeline, that I'm aware of but if it was would the outcome be the same?

    Some issues I had with it...

    1) The animations showing Lechmere basically on top of poor Polly, we know from statements this is not the case so more 'middle of the road.'

    2) KC Scobie's part in the production that Christer so vehemently relies on. We hear Scobie was mislead, if true what can be added to allow him the bigger picture?

    3) Has anything come to light in the last few years that would allow the documentary to NOT finger Lechmere in the crime?
    Nothing new Geddy. We knew then that it was a case built on sand and nothings changed. If it was done honestly they would have to completely remove any suggestion of a proven gap and admit that the ‘about’ was deliberately left out to manufacture it. They would also have to admit that the evidence that Baxter was using points to a discovered time of near to 3.40 and certainly not the 3.44/3.45 that Christer has tried to manipulate the evidence to. They would have to admit that if Cross killed Nichols around 15/20 minutes before being due at work and then ignored the opportunity to flee (bloodied knife in pocket) to wait for a stranger to arrive it would make him entirely unique. They would have to answer this - if you suggest that there was a 7 or 8 minute ‘gap’ before Paul arrived then what the hell was Cross doing given that the murder would have taken him two minutes tops. They would have to admit that Cross gained absolutely no advantage from using his stepfathers surname to the ‘name thing’ is nonsense. And they would have to point out any other serial killer that only killed at sites that he had a familial link to.

    Basically they would have to admit that the case against Cross has been entirely created and that the documentary was aimed at people that didn’t know the facts. Someone should do a response documentary called The Manipulated Evidence: Why Charles Cross Is An Awful Suspect.

    Regards

    Sir Herlock Sholmes.

    “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

      Nothing new Geddy.
      Not even from the YouTube 'House of Tenuous Links' channel, surely some proof can be gathered from that?

      Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
      Someone should do a response documentary called The Manipulated Evidence: Why Charles Cross Is An Awful Suspect.
      Fancy it, I'm game haha

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Geddy2112 View Post

        Not even from the YouTube 'House of Tenuous Links' channel, surely some proof can be gathered from that?
        Definitely not from there.

        Here's my response to Part 4.

        Originally posted by Fiver View Post
        There's some legitimate geneological research. There's also the nonsense of claiming John Allen Lechmere was not a bigamist, while his wife was. And I rolled my eyes at "known to some as Old Ma Lechmere" - nobody would have called her that in her lifetime.

        There's also pure speculation like "this is largely a tale of resentment, a frustrated sense of entitlement". And outright lies like "luck and fortune had fallen all around, but missed one target Charles Allen Lechmere". Fortune had missed lots of Lechmeres, but Charles Allen Lechmere went from carman to running his own business and left his family 262 pounds. In contrast with his cousin George Capel Scudamore Lechmere, who is mentioned on the video, an alcoholic, mostly unemployed barber who was in and out the workhouse who tried to kill his wife by slitting her throat and did time for it.

        In the end, the video shows no evidence, let alone evidence of guilt in the Ripper killings.
        And my response to Part 5.

        Originally posted by Fiver View Post
        If you're interested in random trivia, circular reasoning and speculation, this is the video for you.

        If you're interested in evidence, let alone evidence of guilt, they're completely absent from this video.

        "The leading suspect"?

        Who ever coined the name Jack The Ripper might have been inspired by tales of Springheeled Jack? That's been suggested at least as far back as 2005.

        Charles Lechmere might have read penny dreadfuls? Just like every other kid.

        There was a bookseller named Charles Fox over two miles away from where CAL lived?

        The possible body of the Ratcliffe Highway murderer was unearthed in 1886? An event that happened when Lechmere was 37 was an influence on him growing up?

        A tiger escaped in 1857 near on Betts Street?

        Thirty years later CAL's children attended school on Betts Street?

        Speculating that "Lipski" was shouted at BS Man instead of by him, piled on speculation that the shouter was Lechmere?

        Graffiti near the Pinchin Street Tirso said "Lipski"?

        "probative connections"?

        More false accusations of bigamy.

        Hearing these stories of violence is evidence of guilt? Based on that reasoning everybody in the East End was the Ripper.
        "The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren

        "Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven Blomer

        Comment


        • #5
          I wouldn't want a haircut from an alcoholic barber. He might not be the only one ending up half-cut.

          OK, I'll get my coat.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Fiver View Post
            Definitely not from there.
            Here's my response to Part 4.
            And my response to Part 5.
            I fear mine might not have been so 'polite.' Part 5 was an absolute joke. In fact I use the word 'tenuous' I need a stronger one... you know like 'bullshite' or the likes but 'posher' The one about the bagel 'gave me fits'... I mean really. Seriously you just cant make it up. The Journo, The Fascist and the Serial Killer...

            The problem 'we' have is all the folk replying to his videos saying how great they are. I go back to the quote I found.. 'While Internet has transformed the world into a global village, it has also given a voice to people who would have been considered the village idiots.' I think it was by George Washington

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Geddy2112 View Post
              2) KC Scobie's part in the production that Christer so vehemently relies on. We hear Scobie was mislead, if true what can be added to allow him the bigger picture?
              I think, as I've scanned and scanned but forgive me there are a lot of tit for tats 'Fisherman vs The Rest of The Forum' that basically go back and forth, Fisherman not accepting anything but his version of events no matter how many times things are pointed out to the contrary. But I did read (I think) that Scobie has been to some degree discredited, or rather hoodwinked. Is this correct and has anyone a link to it on here? Has Scobie been contacted as a follow up? Apologies I'm just jumping between threads like 'Springheeled Jack' (I got that name from a YouTube video because I'd read Whizzer and Chips as a kid) and would prefer to save some time. Muchas grassy arse...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Geddy2112 View Post

                I think, as I've scanned and scanned but forgive me there are a lot of tit for tats 'Fisherman vs The Rest of The Forum' that basically go back and forth, Fisherman not accepting anything but his version of events no matter how many times things are pointed out to the contrary. But I did read (I think) that Scobie has been to some degree discredited, or rather hoodwinked. Is this correct and has anyone a link to it on here? Has Scobie been contacted as a follow up? Apologies I'm just jumping between threads like 'Springheeled Jack' (I got that name from a YouTube video because I'd read Whizzer and Chips as a kid) and would prefer to save some time. Muchas grassy arse...
                Hi Geddy,

                Post #1359 Evidence Of Innocence thread by Trevor Marriott, talking about Scobie:

                “I had a telephone call with him discussing the full facts with him and went through with him the full facts many of which he openly stated he had not been made aware of, had he done so he would not have made the statement Fisherman seeks to prop up his theory with.”
                Regards

                Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Geddy2112 View Post

                  I think, as I've scanned and scanned but forgive me there are a lot of tit for tats 'Fisherman vs The Rest of The Forum' that basically go back and forth, Fisherman not accepting anything but his version of events no matter how many times things are pointed out to the contrary. But I did read (I think) that Scobie has been to some degree discredited, or rather hoodwinked. Is this correct and has anyone a link to it on here? Has Scobie been contacted as a follow up? Apologies I'm just jumping between threads like 'Springheeled Jack' (I got that name from a YouTube video because I'd read Whizzer and Chips as a kid) and would prefer to save some time. Muchas grassy arse...
                  According to people who watched the video, there's a brief shot of the "evidence" given to Scobie. It's a set of bullet points, not actual witness statements and it includes only accusatory claims, not anything exculpatory.

                  Scobie appears to have said: "The timings really hurt him because she could have been very very recently fatally killed. You can inflict injuries, as I'm sure a pathologist will tell you, with a knife in seconds and the question is, "where were you?" "what were you doing during that time?" Because actually he has never given a proper answer. He is somebody who seems to be acting in a way, behaving in a way that is suspicious, which a jury would not like. A jury would not like that. When the coincidences add up, mount up against a defendant, and they mount up in this case, it becomes one coincidence too many. The fact that there is a pattern of offending, almost an area of offending, of which he is linked geographically and physically, you add all those points together, piece it all together and the prosecution have the most probative powerful material the courts use against individual suspects. What we would say is that he has got a prima facie case to answer which means there is a case good enough to put before a jury which suggests that he was the killer."

                  Which is a mix of speculation and provably false statements.

                  * The time gap only exists if you ignore the testimonies of PC Mizen, PC, Neil, PC Thain, and the report given by Inspector Abberline.
                  * The timings help Lechmere in the other cases. Most were killed before Lechmere would have started his walk to work or after he had already started his work.
                  * If victims bled out as fast as the documentary claims, then that makes PC Neil the most likely murderer of Nichols.
                  * Lechmere accounted for his movements from the time he left home until the time he found the body - he describes the approximate time he left home and gives the route he walked from his house to the murder site.
                  * Lechmere's actions were not suspicious. They were the actions of an innocent man or an incredibly stupid murderer.
                  * There the only coincidence is that Nichols and Chapman were both killed on Lechmere's route to work. It was also Robert Paul's route to work. And fortunately for both Lechmere and Paul, Chapman was killed after they had started work.
                  * There was no "pattern of offending". There are no records of Lechmere ever committing any criminal act.
                  * Lechmere is not linked geographically to any of the sites. He lived in the area, like 90% of the hundreds of named Ripper suspects.
                  * Lechmere is only physically linked to the Nichols murder site in that he was present at the site near the time of death. Putting him at any other site is pure speculation.

                  "The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren

                  "Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven Blomer

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Click image for larger version

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                    Thanks, I'm not really liking the position here of Lechmere as that is not by any stretch the middle of the road, therefore biased and misleading.

                    Originally posted by Christer
                    'he said at the inquest he left at 3:30'
                    erm that is simply not true, it's missing the 'about' which in when trying to manufacture a time gap is rather concerning.

                    The fact the gap is demonstrated at being at least 7 mins (even 9 mins is mentioned) the expert claims it would have taken 2 mins to perform the kill. Now I've just practiced on my teddy bear (no I have not haha) and I think it could be done faster but let's go with 7 mins minus the 2 mins. That leaves 5 mins for Lechmere to either continue cutting or to bugger off. Instead he does neither and waits around for the next passer by to arrive. Seriously this documentary and Cutting Point need putting firmly in the Fiction section.

                    I asked why Christer did not challenge the above picture from the documentary, since it was misleading and was blanked a couple of times... mmmm.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Fiver View Post


                      * There the only coincidence is that Nichols and Chapman were both killed on Lechmere's route to work. It was also Robert Paul's route to work. And fortunately for both Lechmere and Paul, Chapman was killed after they had started work.
                      Minor clarification Fiver, Chapman was on ONE of the MANY possible routes into Pickfords.

                      Steve

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Elamarna View Post

                        Minor clarification Fiver, Chapman was on ONE of the MANY possible routes into Pickfords.

                        Steve
                        Chapman was on Lechmere's only known route to Pickfords. We don't know if it was his regular route, or if he went up Hanbury Street that day because he chose to keep talking to Robert Paul. None of the other victims were on a likely route for him to take to the Broad Street Station.

                        "The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren

                        "Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven Blomer

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Geddy2112 View Post
                          Click image for larger version

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                          Thanks, I'm not really liking the position here of Lechmere as that is not by any stretch the middle of the road, therefore biased and misleading.
                          The position is biased and misleading. The kneeling pose is biased and misleading. The direction faced is biased and misleading. The time given is biased and misleading.

                          No surprise that Christer blanked you. I don't recall him ever directly dealing with evidence that undermined his theory.

                          "The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren

                          "Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven Blomer

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Fiver View Post

                            Chapman was on Lechmere's only known route to Pickfords. We don't know if it was his regular route, or if he went up Hanbury Street that day because he chose to keep talking to Robert Paul. None of the other victims were on a likely route for him to take to the Broad Street Station.
                            Again Clarification, the route we KNOW he used on one day.

                            Steve


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Didn't Cross stand up and go to the middle of the street when he saw Paul coming?

                              Comment

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