Conjecture vs 'evidence'

[Wickerman]

"Cause of Seeking Relief"?

OK RJ, thankyou.

To be admitted under a question of sanity, admitted for evaluation is compatible with "Qy Insane" being Query Insane.
I had to wonder if the heading was compatible with one of the two options we had been debating, it looks like it is.

[rjpalmer]

RJ, would you happen to know the heading for that last column, far right? ie; Reason for Admittance?, or Physicians Assessment, something like that?

"Cause of Seeking Relief."

It's interesting that his calling of "hairdresser" is still given, though less than a year later Jacob Cohen would state he "hasn't attempted work in years."

"In years" is somewhat vague, but it could signal that Kozminnski had been 'off' for a while. I can't imagine that a hardworking Jewish family trying to scrape by in East London would have tolerated the unemployment of a young man in the prime of life if he hadn't been somehow afflicted.

[Wickerman]

The second notation, directly under the first and which is barely legible, seems to say "destitute & two years insane."

...

RJ, would you happen to know the heading for that last column, far right? ie; Reason for Admittance?, or Physicians Assessment, something like that?

[Darryl Kenyon]

I think that is a very good point by Abby, [ Questionably insane ]. Considering, for instance Ostrog was detained in a lunatic asylum from Wandswoth prison , Sept 87 after attempting to feign insanity in the dock a month earlier [ Begg , The Facts p340 ]. Where some of the Doctors, etc in asylums skeptical of certain patients ? There does seem to be an explosion of people being taken to asylums and such like in the late nineteenth century . An interesting article can be found here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC539549/

Regards Darryl

[rjpalmer]

Hi RJ,

My grandparents were born 1898 and 1900. My original schoolmistress, Miss Seggie, looked to me to be about their age, as did Mr Carter, my schoolmaster after Miss Seggie. I guess that they grew up in the pre-WW1 era and were taught Victorian cursive.

Cheers, George

Thanks, George. It's interesting (and you have a far better memory than I do!).

[GBinOz]

Ha, ha. That's good to know, George!

If you don't mind me asking, how old was your schoolmistress? Was she an ancient relic from a bygone age?

Cheers.

Hi RJ,

My grandparents were born 1898 and 1900. My original schoolmistress, Miss Seggie, looked to me to be about their age, as did Mr Carter, my schoolmaster after Miss Seggie. I guess that they grew up in the pre-WW1 era and were taught Victorian cursive.

Cheers, George

[rjpalmer]

Hi RJ,

I know I'm old, but Victorian?

When I learned cursive in the mid-twentieth century in Australia that is exactly how I was taught to form a capital Q.

Cheers, George

Ha, ha. That's good to know, George!

If you don't mind me asking, how old was your schoolmistress? Was she an ancient relic from a bygone age?

Cheers.

[Abby Normal]

i know its not much difference but could it be Questionably Insane? the longer word might explain the need for abbreviation.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

You might be putting too much faith in Anderson?

About the same amount I put in Swanson.

[GBinOz]

It's a Victorian thing. Here are entries for Quinn, Quinton, Quigley, etc. from the workhouse records.

Hi RJ,

I know I'm old, but Victorian?

When I learned cursive in the mid-twentieth century in Australia that is exactly how I was taught to form a capital Q.

Cheers, George

[Wickerman]

Now that Roger has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that Kosminski's sanity was queried in July 1890, but his insanity not yet diagnosed, how does that sit with his alleged trip to the seaside, courtesy of the police, as a suspected homicidal maniac?

Moreover, Kosminski's lack of a propensity to commit acts of violence seems to have helped him pass the sanity test at that stage.

Why then would he have been considered to be credible as an insane serial murderer and butcherer of women?

You might be putting too much faith in Anderson?

[Wickerman]

I would suggest the abbreviation is Ly, for "Legally" - it would be relevant for an institution to note whether an inmate was merely insane or considered by the police or courts to be legally insane, for instance if an inmate could only be admitted against his or her will if legally insane.

EDIT: just saw RJ Palmer's examples of Qs and concur that Qy seems the better interpretation for now

That is a good idea, it would be nice to see a range of capital "L"s in the script of the period. I'll take a look at the census records from the time, just out of interest.

[Wickerman]

Hi Wick -- I think I concluded long ago that Rob House was correct, but someone managed to forget it again and momentarily slipped back into the '2y' idea, which has to be wrong unless every person admitted had been insane for exactly two years, which obviously makes no sense.....

Yes, exactly, thanks for your input.

[Wickerman]

It's a Victorian thing. Here are entries for Quinn, Quinton, Quigley, etc. from the workhouse records.

Thankyou for posting this example, showing both "Q" and "2", I can rest easy now, besides, how often do you see "y" as short for "year", even in the 19th c. we see "yr".

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Now that Roger has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that Kosminski's sanity was queried in July 1890, but his insanity not yet diagnosed, how does that sit with his alleged trip to the seaside, courtesy of the police, as a suspected homicidal maniac?

Moreover, Kosminski's lack of a propensity to commit acts of violence seems to have helped him pass the sanity test at that stage.

Why then would he have been considered to be credible as an insane serial murderer and butcherer of women?