Edward spooner

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Did the police speak with this woman?
In other words, was her existence definitely ascertained?

[Observer]

That alibi being Louis Diemschitz. Now that's interesting.

That alibi being the young lady he'd been with all night

[NotBlamedForNothing]

That alibi being Louis Diemschitz. Now that's interesting.

[drstrange169]

The other problem is Spooner had an alibi.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Interesting post Sean, and Spooner is an interesting character - suspect or otherwise.
The problem with the notion of Stride soliciting on Berner street, is that the street was not known as an area for prostitution.

Baxter: Do low women frequent Berner-street?
Wess: I have seen men and women standing about and talking to each other in Fairclough-street.
Baxter: But have you observed them nearer the club?
Wess: No.

Which is ... also interesting.

[seanr]

it is a work in progress, and if people can put forward that the ripper was a royal, a painter, or a doctor then i can put forward my prime suspect Edward spooner as Liz strides killer.
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

Edward Spooner is a far more credible East End murderer than Vincent Van Gogh and Lewis Carroll, which have been given at least some degree of attention as suspects (to varying degrees of seriousness, of course).

I'd suggest another possibility than the robbery gone wrong. I am reminded of the case of Kitty Ronan, notable because she was murdered in the 12 Miller's Court in 1909. Her throat was cut so with obvious parallels to a Ripper crime, but in this instance the killer seems to have confessed to the crime. His story being he had accompanied her from Commercial Street to her room at Miller's Court and she had attempted to pick his pockets whilst they were engaging in some business. He had been carrying a knife which he had used to cut her throat and then run away from the scene. If he hadn't confessed it's hard to see how the culprit would ever have been caught.

If Liz Stride was soliciting that night, it was possible she tried to cheat her client, perhaps Edward Spooner or he thought she was going to rip her off, and he lost his temper. The client losing his control with a sex worker and the sex worker becoming the victim of violence, is an all too often repeated story. Especially amongst the vulnerable.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

He moved soon after the murder, and had a son in 1890. I hope someone can help me?

Me too. I've had a good look but can't find anything about Spooner moving address shortly after Stride's murder.
Can someone please point me to this information?

[ukranianphil]

No problems DRoy.
loving the fourm, and i'm learning a lot.
Thats what its all about. who knows, i might see things differently, and change my mind.
Thanks.

[DRoy]

Ukranianphil,

I didn't mean it as a cheap joke towards you. I honestly just happened to catch a pun and tried to be a bit silly with it.

I look forward to your research. We at least at this time share the opinion Stride may not be a 'Ripper' victim.

Take care,
DRoy

[ukranianphil]

I suppose Phil what you are saying is that Spooner had the means (a knife)...the motive (He robbed her and she might be able to identify him) and the opportunity (He was in immediate vicinity).
The problem is there were most likely hundreds in the vicinity at the time (immediate or not as immediate) all would have had at least access to some kind of knife, and quite possibly a fair percentage would have robbed anyone .
How about his history? Thats a good place to start. arrests for violence for instance?
Now while at first glance your theory might seem silly to some, at least you have named a person who was at the spot. But again ,how can you hope to prove anything?However if you could place him at or aroud the scene of another murder in the series then it might be food for thought indeed.
Carry on regardless, Professionals are often shocked ,and pissed off, by what the amatuer can and sometimes does, uncover.......There are several examples of that on other threads,but we wont go into that.

ive been looking into his history smoking joe. very interesting, It is the first [proper] piece of research i have done, and i admit it is not looking good. I still say Liz was not a ripper victim, you have to look at each case individually, while keeping the others inmind.
Thank you for the encouragement, and not making cheap jokes.

[DRoy]

Ukranianphil,

You may be on to something with Spooner!

Think of the position of Stride when found...she was in the position as if being "spooned". Plus she was killed with a knife...perhaps by "Spooner". Get it? Where is the fork? That would be the fork in the road when Spooner had the choice to kill or not kill Stride.

Case solved.

Cheers
DRoy

[Smoking Joe]

I suppose Phil what you are saying is that Spooner had the means (a knife)...the motive (He robbed her and she might be able to identify him) and the opportunity (He was in immediate vicinity).
The problem is there were most likely hundreds in the vicinity at the time (immediate or not as immediate) all would have had at least access to some kind of knife, and quite possibly a fair percentage would have robbed anyone .
How about his history? Thats a good place to start. arrests for violence for instance?
Now while at first glance your theory might seem silly to some, at least you have named a person who was at the spot. But again ,how can you hope to prove anything?However if you could place him at or aroud the scene of another murder in the series then it might be food for thought indeed.
Carry on regardless, Professionals are often shocked ,and pissed off, by what the amatuer can and sometimes does, uncover.......There are several examples of that on other threads,but we wont go into that.

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Lynn.
1. If Liz was not soliciting that night, why did she go into dutfields yard with a man?
Even is she was not, perhaps that is what happened to her sixpence?
2. Spooner lived at 26 fairclough street, and i am sure he would have bumped into her at one point. (doing some research at the moment)
A.no. Spooner just saw an opportunity, i believe it was a one off crime. He moved away a couple of years later.
B. Most people in Whitechapel hated the Jews, so yes it is possible spooner was racist towards them.
B. Like most muggers, people don't know how much their victims have.

anyway lynn it is a work in progress, and if people can put forward that the ripper was a royal, a painter, or a doctor then i can put forward my prime suspect Edward spooner as Liz strides killer.
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

Hi ukranianphil,

ok....on the question of your first point.....Liz Stride had stated to her landlady that she had been at work among the Jews the past few months, we have a primarily Jewish membership club... after a large meeting.. that would need to be cleaned. She might have been waiting for a member for a planned social occasion...or to surprise someone. She might have seen a friend in the passageway and went in to say hello. And of course there is the oft used theory that she was with a client. Lots of options.

There is no evidence that suggests Liz Stride frequented that street, or would have been recognizable by anyone on it.

The balance of the post is merely opinion.,...which your entitled to of course. What you cant do is form a theory using only opinion as its basis and expect anyone here to take it too seriously.

Good that you are considering a few alternative answers though.

Cheers

[ukranianphil]

UkranianPhil,

It is true it may be impossible to prove right or wrong. However, to be blunt, is that really what you want your theory to be based on? What evidence or proof is there to back any of what you've said?

Lots of people lived in the area and had just as much opportunity to kill Stride. You're basing your opinion on him being broke? Wasn't most of the population in and around the area? Add Lynn's comments and you've got your work cut out for you.

Of course its possible he killed Stride. But, please don't rely on the "can't prove it wasn't him" rule because it's a weak argument. What's worse is using other ridiculous suspects as a way to push your suspect. I mean that in a helpful way UkranianPhil, honestly.

Besides supposition, provide anything in the sort of evidence and i'll bite. Until then, you may be on your own with this one.

All the best,
DRoy

well, i am doing some research, but it is early days, i just find it strange that he touched liz strides chin. why did he look there? why did he move so soon after the inquest?
Thats why i love looking into this case, the possibilities are endless.
I Don't even think there is a description of him.

[DVV]

One thing that is obvious in our story, is that Eddowes and Stride have been murdered by the same individual.

After Lechmere, Spooner.

Why not Davis, Bowyer, Mrs Long or Reeves ? (poor Watkins has already been suspected)

Cheers all