Lechmere versus Richardson.

[Abby Normal]

Thanks for the aerial photo, Mark. You left out the cats sheds, though. ;-). Still, as they were less than a minute’s walk from the Pinchin Street arch, that Red Cross will suffice for both.

Let’s narrow the area down to show the family’s decades long connection to the ‘Pinchin Street area’.


Here’s a list of the Lechmere/Cross/Forsdyke family’s addresses in the PSA.


1861: 13, Thomas (Pinchin) Street (T/M/C)

1869: 11, Mary Ann Street (T/M/C)

1870: Mary Ann Street (C)

1871: 11, Mary Ann Street (M/C)

1871: 6, Splidts Terrace (J)

1872: 6, Splidts Terrace (M/J)

1874: 54, Splidts Street (M/J)

1875: 12, Mary Ann Street (C)

1876: 12, Mary Ann Street (C)

1876: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1877: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1878: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1879: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1880: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1881: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1882: 23, Pinchin Street (M/J)

1883: 1, Mary Ann Street (M/J)

1884: 1, Mary Ann Street (M/J)

1886: 1, Mary Ann Street (M/J)

1887: 1, Mary Ann Street (M/J)

1888: 1, Mary Ann Street (M/J)

1889: 147, Cable Street (M/J)

1889: 139, Cable Street(?) (M/J)




T: Thomas Cross

M: Maria Lechmere

C: Charles Lechmere

J: Joseph Forsdike

thanks for this Gary. Lech as the torsoripper leaving his last FU to the world?-the pinchin victim showing elements from both series and near his mothers/childhood home.

do we know what became of 1, mary ann st after ma lech moved to cable st? cats meat shop perhaps?

[Mark J D]

... Lech as the torsoripper leaving his last FU to the world?-the pinchin victim showing elements from both series and near his mothers/childhood home...

... In fact, pretty much on a site where one of his family's previous addresses had stood before the railway arches were built.

But then, I'm sure that is true of thousands of other people too...

M.

[MrBarnett]

thanks for this Gary. Lech as the torsoripper leaving his last FU to the world?-the pinchin victim showing elements from both series and near his mothers/childhood home.

do we know what became of 1, mary ann st after ma lech moved to cable st? cats meat shop perhaps?

German skin dyers moved in.

[MrBarnett]

... In fact, pretty much on a site where one of his family's previous addresses had stood before the railway arches were built.

But then, I'm sure that is true of thousands of other people too...

M.

Pretty much where Frederick Street ‘Tiger Bay’ had been when he was an adolescent.

[MrBarnett]

thanks for this Gary. Lech as the torsoripper leaving his last FU to the world?-the pinchin victim showing elements from both series and near his mothers/childhood home.

do we know what became of 1, mary ann st after ma lech moved to cable st? cats meat shop perhaps?

And if not transported to the arch by vehicle, then presumably kept somewhere very close by and carried there.

Where could you keep a decomposing body without family, neighbours etc becoming aware of the smell?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Could a witness in the case have actually been the Ripper and how difficult is it to put together some kind of ‘case’ against him? It’s happened with Charles Lechmere so what about John Richardson for example.


We can place him at 29 Hanbury Street but flatly denying that there was a body there.

His testimony is contradicted by the medical evidence as Phillips stated that Chapman was already dead by the time that Richardson had arrived at the yard. So according to the Doctor, Richardson was lying.

He had a reason to have been there if seen leaving.

He could easily have been at the scene earlier than he’d stated giving him ample time to have killed Chapman, cleaned up and headed off to work.

He claimed that people used the location for immoral purposes so perhaps he did too?

His statement that he’d sat on the back step directly conflicted with Chandler who said that he hadn’t said that.

He said that he’d cut a piece of leather from his boot but as far as we know no piece of leather was found in that yard.

He actually carried a knife but when he was sent to get it he came back with one that appeared to have been too blunt for the job of. So did he leave his ‘killing knife’ at home and just present the police with an old and blunt one?


I’m sure that with further thought and with contributions from others we could easily get a wagon rolling on this. So do I think that John Richardson was the ripper? No, of course I don’t but I think that he actually has more going for him than Lechmere and this is my point. I think that things have simply got out of hand with Lechmere; as soon as you get people thinking on a suspect then it’s fairly easy to keep coming up with ‘possibles’ in terms of potential guilt; the waggon starts rolling downhill, gathering pace. So…


We can’t claim that Lechmere was at the scene earlier than stated but he could have been. Ditto Richardson.

The so-called blood evidence only shows that Nichols wouldn’t have been killed very long before Lechmere arrived at the scene but the medical evidence of Phillips calls Richardson a flat out liar.

There is the disputed conversation with Mizen. Ditto Richardson and Chandler though Richardson’s is less fanciful and we don’t need to assume that a second person somehow ended up out of earshot.

We have no evidence that Lechmere carried a knife but we know that Richardson did and it could be suggested that his actions in regard to that knife was suspicious when he returned to the Inquest with a blunt one.

We have to suggest that Lechmere refused to flee the scene at enormous and pointless risk to himself and stood waiting for a figure in the dark to arrive. No such issue with Richardson as he’d have had ample time being alone at the scene.

And if Phillis was correct on the TOD then Richardson had no rush to get to work on time.

And again, if Phillips was correct then the murder occurred around half an hour or so after the time that Lechmere apparently began work.


So I’ll ask again…..how is Charles Lechmere a better suspect than John Richardson?

Can I first just point out that I haven’t said that I believe that Richardson was the ripper and I haven’t said that we can link him in any way to any of the areas around the locations. But my two points are…

a) if we looked into everyone mentioned in this case we might easily find ‘links’ to the vicinity crime scenes. It’s also the case that there would be links that aren’t on record. It’s no staggering revelation.

b) So what? What does it imply? That he was familiar with the area. So what? Do serial killers only kill at locations that they have some kind of connection to? No they don’t?

It reminds me a little of the stuff I used to read when I was looking into the JFK assassination. “ Witness X lived in so and so street and guess who lived just 4 blocks away? Lee Harvey Oswald’s great uncle’s brother-in-law.”

…….

In Richardson we have a man……

Who was alone in the yard where the body was found.
According to the Doctor he wasn’t telling the truth about there being no body there.
According to the Police he lied about sitting on the step.
He definitely had a knife.
He produces a knife at the Inquest that appeared unfit for the purpose that he’d allegedly used it for.
He’d could easily have been there earlier than he’d stated.
He’d have had ample time to clean up and got to work.

No need to create a mythical gap by falsely representing what Lechmere actually said.
No need to whittle down estimated time to more exact times to make things fit.
No need for weird interpretations of what Baxter was talking about.
No need to explain away illogical actions like choosing to loiter around when he could have escaped.
No need for the fiction that is the Mizen Scam.

So I’ll ask again, how is John Richardson not a better suspect than Charles Lechmere?

[SuperShodan]

The Pinchin Street torso.

I believe Lechmere’s mother was in the wholesale cat meat business ie not just selling cat meat, they actually produced it. They bought large bits of horses or whole horses to make into cat meat. Happy to be corrected on that as it’s just what I’ve read on another page.

So if true the family business would be chopping up dead animals and I assume they would have premises and equipment for doing so.

I’ve never really looked into the torso murders. However, the Pinchin Street torso was killed a short distance away from where it was dumped, about 250m max.

Furthermore, I read the cat meat sheds are nearby. The body was also dumped very close to where Lechmere’s childhood home stood before it was knocked down.

It’s just something else that pops up when you start looking at Lechmere.

[MrBarnett]

Mike,

Some people find the geographical aspects significant, some don’t. We must agree to differ.

But you have offered Richardson for comparison and say this,

a) if we looked into everyone mentioned in this case we might easily find ‘links’ to the vicinity crime scenes. It’s also the case that there would be links that aren’t on record. It’s no staggering revelation.


So over to you, my friend. Go find his aunt Mary in Pinchin Street or Mitre Square.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Drew Grey tried to build a case against Hardiman, including some geographical connections. As it turns out, it seems Hardiman was running a cats meat shop in Clerkenwell in 1888. Fitting someone up is perhaps not as easy as it seems.

[MrBarnett]

The Pinchin Street torso.

I believe Lechmere’s mother was in the wholesale cat meat business ie not just selling cat meat, they actually produced it. They bought large bits of horses or whole horses to make into cat meat. Happy to be corrected on that as it’s just what I’ve read on another page.

So if true the family business would be chopping up dead animals and I assume they would have premises and equipment for doing so.

I’ve never really looked into the torso murders. However, the Pinchin Street torso was killed a short distance away from where it was dumped, about 250m max.

Furthermore, I read the cat meat sheds are nearby. The body was also dumped very close to where Lechmere’s childhood home stood before it was knocked down.

It’s just something else that pops up when you start looking at Lechmere.

Why do you think Maria was more than a seller of cats’ meat?

CAL’s childhood home in Pinchin Street was still there in 1889.

It isn’t known for certain that the torso wasn’t brought to Pinchin Street in a vehicle of some kind.

[Scott Nelson]

So I’ll ask again, how is John Richardson not a better suspect than Charles Lechmere?

He is for the murder of Chapman, just as Lechmere is for the murder of Nichols. And as Morris or Watkins is for the murder of Eddowes. Barnett/Fleming for the murder of Kelly, and William Bury for the murder of Ellen Bury.

[Aethelwulf]

He is for the murder of Chapman, just as Lechmere is for the murder of Nichols. And as Morris or Watkins is for the murder of Eddowes. Barnett/Fleming for the murder of Kelly, and William Bury for the murder of Ellen Bury.

Something of a non-comparison given that only one of them actually murdered a woman

[Herlock Sholmes]

Mike,

Some people find the geographical aspects significant, some don’t. We must agree to differ.

No problem Gary

But you have offered Richardson for comparison and say this,

a) if we looked into everyone mentioned in this case we might easily find ‘links’ to the vicinity crime scenes. It’s also the case that there would be links that aren’t on record. It’s no staggering revelation.


So over to you, my friend. Go find his aunt Mary in Pinchin Street or Mitre Square.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Drew Grey tried to build a case against Hardiman, including some geographical connections. As it turns out, it seems Hardiman was running a cats meat shop in Clerkenwell in 1888. Fitting someone up is perhaps not as easy as it seems.

I couldn’t find anything even if it existed Gary as I have no access to anything like Ancestry but I still reckon that if we had access to every detail about everyone these kind of links wouldn’t be uncommon. Some might be more tenuous than others but they might still be ‘usable’ in terms of making a geographic point. The murders occurred over a small area so anyone living in that area and who’s family had lived in that area for years would surely be bound to have ‘links.’

[Mark J D]

German skin dyers moved in.

Weird. You wouldn't think there's be much demand for dyed German skin.

M.

[Mark J D]

... CAL’s childhood home in Pinchin Street was still there in 1889...

I thought there was at least one down on Splidt's Street that was flattened...?!?

(I know some of these details have been revised as house numberings have been investigated, etc)

M.

[MrBarnett]

I thought there was at least one down on Splidt's Street that was flattened...?!?

(I know some of these details have been revised as house numberings have been investigated, etc)

M.

I don’t think CAL himself ever lived in Splidts Street. Joe Forsdike and later Joe and Maria did.