Lechmere versus Richardson.

[Mark J D]

I don’t think CAL himself ever lived in Splidts Street. Joe Forsdike and later Joe and Maria did.

Thanks for that.

-- You don't feel like nailing all this down with an annotated map or three, do you?

M.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Mike,

Some people find the geographical aspects significant, some don’t. We must agree to differ.

But you have offered Richardson for comparison and say this,

a) if we looked into everyone mentioned in this case we might easily find ‘links’ to the vicinity crime scenes. It’s also the case that there would be links that aren’t on record. It’s no staggering revelation.


So over to you, my friend. Go find his aunt Mary in Pinchin Street or Mitre Square.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Drew Grey tried to build a case against Hardiman, including some geographical connections. As it turns out, it seems Hardiman was running a cats meat shop in Clerkenwell in 1888. Fitting someone up is perhaps not as easy as it seems.

It’s a small point Gary but I only meant the Canonical 5. I know there there is reasonable debate over who was or wasn’t a victim but the Pinchin Street torso isn’t considered a ripper victim by most though unless they consider the ripper and the torso murderer to have been one and the same.

A smaller point, but still valid I think, is that Mitre Square wasn’t really a residential area (apart from a very few houses I believe) so it’s hardly likely that we would find anyone living there.

Could you, or anyone, point me in the direction of the maps that have been provided to show Lechmere’s routes in relation to the individual murder sites please? Cheers.

Edit: then again, it’s surely in Cutting Point which I can check when I get home.

[Mark J D]

... Could you, or anyone, point me in the direction of the maps that have been provided to show lechmere’s routes in relation to the individual murder sites please?

hth.

M.

[Mark J D]

... Could you, or anyone, point me in the direction of the maps that have been provided to show lechmere’s routes in relation to the individual murder sites please?

hth.

M.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I was intending to have another look at this geographic stuff in Cutting Point but I just couldn’t be bothered. I looked at the bit about the Hanbury Street and Montague Street routes. So 2 different routes. So did he change routes for the different scenery? It’s nonsense. If he took the Hanbury Street route then we have to eliminate the Montague Street.

Its all sleight of hand. “If he went by x route,” when there are numerous other options.

It was a small area. Lechmere was a local who worked locally like thousands of others.

Smoke and mirrors.

[Mark J D]

... Hanbury Street and Montague Street routes. So 2 different routes. So did he change routes for the different scenery? It’s nonsense. If he took the Hanbury Street route then we have to eliminate the Montague Street.

There are killers who'd, well, kill for the chance to have various routes of pretty well identical length that they could quietly switch between as and when they were most interested in not being seen again at a given location.

M.

[MrBarnett]

I was intending to have another look at this geographic stuff in Cutting Point but I just couldn’t be bothered. I looked at the bit about the Hanbury Street and Montague Street routes. So 2 different routes. So did he change routes for the different scenery? It’s nonsense. If he took the Hanbury Street route then we have to eliminate the Montague Street.

Its all sleight of hand. “If he went by x route,” when there are numerous other options.

It was a small area. Lechmere was a local who worked locally like thousands of others.

Smoke and mirrors.

Think C5. Think working week.

Buck’s Row
Hanbury Street
Commercial Street (Kelly)

Old Montague Street is only really necessary to fit the square peg of Tabram into place.

Richardson has 2 out of those three. Buck’s Row’s a bit of a stretch for him - at least from what we know of his activities. As for Berner Street… RJ posted something recently that might provide a Richardson connection to SGE.

[Mark J D]

Old Montague Street is only really necessary to fit the square peg of Tabram into place.

I'd hate people to forget that Montague Street is also his route home after Mitre Square -- which is why Eddowes' apron-piece ended up on that corner of Goulston Street. (Graphic 1)

M.

[MrBarnett]

hth.

M.

What I love about the Lech triangle is that in 1888 it doesn’t include Pinchin Street. In 1889 it does.

In 1889 it doesn’t include Swallow Gardens. In 1891 it does.

Changes courtesy of his old Ma’s itchy feet.

[rjpalmer]

What is the "evidence of innocence" in regard to John Richardson? Isn't that how this silly game is supposed to be played?

Is that the fact that when asked by the Coroner to run home and fetch the knife that he was brandishing while in the backyard in the early morning hours while with a dead prostitute, Richardson returned with a dull butter knife that could barely snap a carrot in two?

Imagine the howls of derision had this been Lechmere.

[MrBarnett]

I'd hate people to forget that Montague Street is also his route home after Mitre Square -- which is why Eddowes' apron-piece ended up on that corner of Goulston Street. (Graphic 1)

M.

We can’t forget what we don’t know. ;-)

[MrBarnett]

What is the "evidence of innocence" in regard to John Richardson? Isn't that how this silly game is supposed to be played?

Is that the fact that when asked by the Coroner to run home and fetch the knife that he was brandishing while in the backyard in the early morning hours while with a dead prostitute, Richardson returned with a dull butter knife that could barely snap a carrot in two?

Imagine the howls of derision had this been Lechmere.

Yes, and the howls of derision directed at those who are adamant that CAL would have been thoroughly checked out by the ultra efficient Keystone Cops.

[rjpalmer]

Yes, and the howls of derision directed at those who are adamant that CAL would have been thoroughly checked out by the ultra efficient Keystone Cops.

It was the cops who asked Richardson to fetch the knife? Wasn't it the Coroner, or am I misremembering that?

To be honest, the derision about not checking out CAL and Paul is well-placed. Some here clearly haven't spent much time around real policemen--and, as a result, they misunderstand the policeman's psyche. They've heard it all, seen it all, and through bitter experience take very little on faith.

In short, they are suspicious of everyone--especially men out and about in the dark streets at 3.45 in the morning. That's a no-brainer. It didn't matter what Paul and CAL told Mizen, the minute the policeman saw the woman back in Buck's Row was dead and mangled, his mind would have raced back to the two men he had just encountered.

So, of course they would have been checked out. There were virtually no other suspects to scrutinize beyond the horse slaughterers and Nichol's known acquaintances. And Lord knows policemen would want to find a suspect in a murder investigation.

Of course, the mere fact that were checked-out is not proof of Paul's innocence. Nor CAL's. But it does undermine the belief that CAL was up to some ruse when he used the name of the man who had raised him from childhood to adulthood.

[Herlock Sholmes]

hth.

M.

Why would he have turned left in Commercial Street rather than going straight on? But even if he had gone that way why would he have ignored turning right into Brushfield Street taking him directly to Liverpool Street? The map route would involve zig-zagging (Crispin Street/Artillery Lane) why would he have done that rather than taking the direct route?

Have you posted proposed routes past each murder site with reasons for taking those routes Mark?

[MrBarnett]

It was the cops who asked Richardson to fetch the knife? Wasn't it the Coroner, or am I misremembering that?

To be honest, the derision about not checking out CAL and Paul is well-placed. Some here clearly haven't spent much time around real policemen--and, as a result, they misunderstand the policeman's psyche. They've heard it all, seen it all, and through bitter experience take very little on faith.

In short, they are suspicious of everyone--especially men out and about in the dark streets at 3.45 in the morning. That's a no-brainer. It didn't matter what Paul and CAL told Mizen, the minute the policeman saw the woman back in Buck's Row was dead and mangled, his mind would have raced back to the two men he had just encountered.

So, of course they would have been checked out. There were virtually no other suspects to scrutinize beyond the horse slaughterers and Nichol's known acquaintances. And Lord knows policemen would want to find a suspect in a murder investigation.

Of course, the mere fact that were checked-out is not proof of Paul's innocence. Nor CAL's. But it does undermine the belief that CAL was up to some ruse when he used the name of the man who had raised him from childhood to adulthood.

Yes, it apparently hadn’t occurred to the cops, just as it didn’t occur to them to knock on the doors in Buck’s Row.