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Francis Hermans - Update - Solid evidence of him being in vicinity of torso murders.

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  • #61
    Looks like he was based in Glasgow in late 1889.

    Geographically he looks wrong, but he was a bit of a gadabout.

    Click image for larger version

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    • #62
      Click image for larger version

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ID:	751284 And here’s his entry in the Glasgow Post Office Directory 1889-90, printed in 1889.



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      • #63
        Well done, Gary. Same general part of Glasgow as Claremont Street. Less than a mile. It would be nice to find Frank Jr.

        I can't help noticing that some of the newspaper accounts have such titles as "The Mormon Murders" etc

        He was in Salt Lake City, but he was an evangelical!

        It seems more than a tad dishonest.

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        • #64
          Interesting find.
          Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced,it started civil society).
          M. Pacana

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          • #65
            Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
            Well done, Gary. Same general part of Glasgow as Claremont Street. Less than a mile. It would be nice to find Frank Jr.

            I can't help noticing that some of the newspaper accounts have such titles as "The Mormon Murders" etc

            He was in Salt Lake City, but he was an evangelical!

            It seems more than a tad dishonest.
            There was a Francis G. Hermans, a former clerk in a newspaper office, aged 28, residing in an epileptic colony in Cheshire in 1911.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Astatine211 View Post

              Emmeline Smith - First known wife - Murdered 1889
              Frank Hermans - First son with ES - Murdered 1889, 8 years old at death.
              Bertha Wangen - Second known wife - Murder 1891 in Minnesota - Forced ingestion of ammonia - Lips corroded.
              Bertha Wangen's child - Infant from another father - Murdered 1891
              Caroline Crowley - Friend of Martha's - Disappeared 1892 - Potentially dismembered
              Martha Elmira Lommen - Third known wife - Murdered 1893
              Francis Hermans and Martha Elmira Lommen's child - Murdered 1893
              Henrietta Clawson - Servant - Murdered 1895 - Dismembered
              Annie Samuelson - Servant - Murdered 1896 - Dismembered
              Moot question from me, however. Seeing as Hermans seems to have murdered and dismembered wives, and individuals known to him, is it reasonable to assume that should he have been the London Torso killer, the victims were known to him? By the way, I share the view of a couple of posters who have expressed the opinion that the London Torso killer didn't exist.

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              • #67
                Does anyone have access to the Salt Lake Daily Herald of either 10/11 or 11/10 1896? There’s a piece in there, ‘Hermans’ First Wife’ that might be interesting.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                  Does anyone have access to the Salt Lake Daily Herald of either 10/11 or 11/10 1896? There’s a piece in there, ‘Hermans’ First Wife’ that might be interesting.
                  https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...11/ed-1/seq-1/
                  https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...10/ed-1/seq-1/

                  These should be the two you're looking for.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post

                    There was a Francis G. Hermans, a former clerk in a newspaper office, aged 28, residing in an epileptic colony in Cheshire in 1911.
                    It's a nice thought, but someone has him in their family tree, identified as the son of Francis George Augustus Herman and Mary Ann Collins. They are living in Clapham in 1891, under the name George and Mary Herman, son Frank, plus four other children.

                    The Rev. Hermans may not be connected to any of the London crimes, but it looks like he is well worth studying and I hope Astatine keeps plugging away. If half of what the newspapers said of him is true, he was another Henri Landru, before there was a Henri Landru.

                    I wonder if he was connected to the Seamen's Christian Friend Society or some such organization. He once claimed that he did missionary work on steamers, but this could have been a lie.

                    The Seaman's Institute in Glasgow where he worked was evidently funded by the Seamen's Friend Society, but I'm ignorant whether that was the same group. There are photographs of the building on-line.

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                    • #70
                      This is the Sailors Rest in Le Havre where he spent a lot of time as a missionary. I found it on a post card up for auction online. This is from the early 1900s but I assume if it was 15 years earlier Hermans name would be listed as the port missionary.
                      Attached Files

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                      • #71
                        "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                        - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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                        • #72
                          On this photo of danish-norwegian methodist preachers conference, Hermans is nr. 26 (middle row, far left). The photo was published in a book 1894, but the conference took place 1892, it seems.Click image for larger version  Name:	francishermans.jpg Views:	0 Size:	152.0 KB ID:	751312

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                            hi el
                            what book? by whom?

                            Regards

                            Sir Herlock Sholmes



                            "Tis but a part we see, and not a whole."

                            ”Baroni licitum est dicere troglodytam”

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post

                              It's a nice thought, but someone has him in their family tree, identified as the son of Francis George Augustus Herman and Mary Ann Collins. They are living in Clapham in 1891, under the name George and Mary Herman, son Frank, plus four other children.

                              The Rev. Hermans may not be connected to any of the London crimes, but it looks like he is well worth studying and I hope Astatine keeps plugging away. If half of what the newspapers said of him is true, he was another Henri Landru, before there was a Henri Landru.

                              I wonder if he was connected to the Seamen's Christian Friend Society or some such organization. He once claimed that he did missionary work on steamers, but this could have been a lie.

                              The Seaman's Institute in Glasgow where he worked was evidently funded by the Seamen's Friend Society, but I'm ignorant whether that was the same group. There are photographs of the building on-line.

                              Click image for larger version

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                              Yes, the transcription of the 1911 record showed him incorrectly as Hermans rather than Herman. In 1939 he’s in an asylum near Chatham.

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                              • #75
                                Interesting stuff Astatine (and other contributors of course)

                                Regards

                                Sir Herlock Sholmes



                                "Tis but a part we see, and not a whole."

                                ”Baroni licitum est dicere troglodytam”

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