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Francis Hermans - Update - Solid evidence of him being in vicinity of torso murders.

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  • #16
    It also looks like his father's name was Herman or Hermans Stockhausen, so he used the name "Hermans"?

    There also a John Stockhausen living in Rotherhithe in 1881, so you might check if there is a connection.
    Last edited by rjpalmer; 02-16-2021, 12:31 PM.

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    • #17
      This is all good stuff. I think we have a candidate for the Torso murders.

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      • #18
        Good work Astatine!

        This is really interesting stuff!

        It's great to be reminded that there are still new and interesting things to be uncovered, and I'm delighted to see such a significant contribution being made by a relative newcomer to the boards.

        Respect due!

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        • #19
          If he sailed out of Liverpool on 8 April 1891, that's three days after the UK census, so you might be able to find him on the 5th. To me, it looks like he baptized his son and then fled the country without him.

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          • #20
            Click image for larger version

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            I wonder if Samuel was born in France while his father was based at the Sailors Home there?

            This is who I have in mind. The Ancestry tree doesn’t show his parents but his daughter’s middle name was Emmeline.



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            • #21
              Originally posted by jerryd View Post
              Hello Astatine.

              An article in the Hagerstown Mail, May 29,1896 shares much information on Francis Hermans.

              Some highlights are-


              -He was born of Swedish parentage and was a naturalized British citizen.

              -He was pastor of a Scandanavian Methodist church.

              -Description- "He is described as a man from 40 to 45 years of age. His hair is sandy as is the sweeping moustache he affects. Though inclined to be a trifle stout, he is very active, and his agility is heightened by his keen, restless grey eyes. As stated, he has been married three times."

              -He traveled very widely. For several years he was employed on mail steamers running between England and India. He was also at one time in charge, as a minister, in a sailors home in Havre, France.

              -The article states it was found that he was a medical student and in his rooms was found enough poison to kill all the inhabitants of Salt Lake City.

              -He burned body parts and murder weapons in the furnace in the basement of the church he was pastor.



              Thanks for digging him up. (no pun intended)

              The article is very long. If you want more information, I can provide it from the article. I have found several news articles so I'll see if more can be found on him.

              JD
              stout. wow. medical student, bundled up body parts, evaded capture forever. wow.
              Last edited by Abby Normal; 02-16-2021, 01:55 PM.
              "Is all that we see or seem
              but a dream within a dream?"

              -Edgar Allan Poe


              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

              -Frederick G. Abberline

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              • #22
                Click image for larger version

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ID:	751199 Samuel spoke at a meeting of the Religious Tract society held at the Cannon Street Hotel, London in May, 1887.

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                • #23
                  also, sandy hair. my son has light brown/sandy curly/ wiry hair and depending in the lighting and time of year looks everything from blond, to reddish to brown. this guy fits the witness descriptions and sandy hair could explain the difference in witness descriptions on hair color. i also note the agility aspect amd that he was city ministry in london... "you would say anything but your prayers".

                  he also had no problem attracting and rusing women.

                  obviously a dismemberer too. is there any more detail on the mutilation parts of his known murders???if there is i think we have not only a good suspect for torsoman but for the torsoripper (of course if they were the same man that is).
                  Last edited by Abby Normal; 02-16-2021, 02:08 PM.
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                    Click image for larger version

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ID:	751199 Samuel spoke at a meeting of the Religious Tract society held at the Cannon Street Hotel, London in May, 1887.
                    Thanks, Gary. I think you mean Francis spoke?

                    Your Samuel Hermans looks promising. There is a slight discrepancy in the birth date 30 Dec 1887 vs. 03 Dec 1887, but this could be a dyslexic moment by the clerk.

                    In 1918 Samuel's next of kin is listed as Kate Marshall, Wimbeldon Villa, Lancing, Sussex, which might lead somewhere...

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post

                      Thanks, Gary. I think you mean Francis spoke?

                      Your Samuel Hermans looks promising. There is a slight discrepancy in the birth date 30 Dec 1887 vs. 03 Dec 1887, but this could be a dyslexic moment by the clerk.

                      In 1918 Samuel's next of kin is listed as Kate Marshall, Wimbeldon Villa, Lancing, Sussex, which might lead somewhere...
                      I found this about Samuel, it's list him living with a Kate Marshall
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by Astatine211; 02-16-2021, 02:40 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Astatine211 View Post

                        I found this about Samuel
                        Yes, I did mean Francis.

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                        • #27
                          There’s mention in some press reports of an Edinburgh marriage between Francis and a woman named Dodds.

                          Edit: Cobb, not Dodds. Dora Cobb.
                          Last edited by MrBarnett; 02-16-2021, 02:53 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post

                            Thanks, Gary. I think you mean Francis spoke?

                            Your Samuel Hermans looks promising. There is a slight discrepancy in the birth date 30 Dec 1887 vs. 03 Dec 1887, but this could be a dyslexic moment by the clerk.

                            In 1918 Samuel's next of kin is listed as Kate Marshall, Wimbeldon Villa, Lancing, Sussex, which might lead somewhere...
                            The Ancestry tree gives his place of birth as specifically Le Havre, but it doesn’t provide a source.

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                            • #29
                              "I found this about Samuel, it lists him living with a Kate Marshall"

                              Thanks, Astatine, That's a bit confusing His birthplace is given as Glasgow in the census, but he's clearly the same Samuel Harmans who lists his birthplace as Le Havre on his military papers. The Kate Marshall with the elderly father John can be found living in Brighton in 1911, which is close to Lancing, West Sussex.

                              But they clearly weren't related by blood, so we are assuming that his mother Emeline is dead by 1901.

                              Which is probably not good.


                              Click image for larger version  Name:	Samuel Hermans.JPG Views:	0 Size:	109.1 KB ID:	751214

                              Last edited by rjpalmer; 02-16-2021, 03:07 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
                                "I found this about Samuel, it lists him living with a Kate Marshall"

                                Thanks, Astatine, That's a bit confusing His birthplace is given as Glasgow in the census, but he's clearly the same Samuel Harmans who lists his birthplace as Le Havre on his military papers. The Kate Marshall with the elderly husband John can be found living in Brighton in 1911, which is close to Lancing, West Sussex.

                                But they clearly weren't related by blood, so we are assuming that his mother Emeline is dead by 1901.

                                Which is probably not good.


                                Click image for larger version  Name:	Samuel Hermans.JPG Views:	0 Size:	109.1 KB ID:	751214

                                Emmeline died between 1887 and November 1889. I've also read that he had a first son with Emmeline named Frank after they married who was also dead by 1890.

                                According to police investigators, Emmeline died or disappeared under "mysterious circumstances" I'm hoping there should be more on her death in his case file.
                                Last edited by Astatine211; 02-16-2021, 03:08 PM.

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