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  • John McCarthy

    Good day to all


    I believe i have made a little discovery...

    May i ask...


    Is it at all relevant that Mary Jane Kelly's landlord John McCarthy's extended family boarded in the same house as Charles Lechmere in 1881?


    That would make a link between Charles Lechmere and Mary Jane Kelly through John McCarthy.

    That would increase the likelihood that Charles Lechmere knew John McCarthy through his boarder


    And if Charles knew John McCarthy, then he may have also known MJK


    John McCarthy and the McCarthy widow who lodged with Charles Lechmere are linked through marriage to the widows deceased husband.

    They were 2nd cousins

    I know this because of my Genealogical detective undertakings.



    John McCarthy the facilitator?


    Let's not forget that MJK wasn't the only woman murdered in the dwellings. Not the same room as MJK, but close enough.


    Could the McCarthy widow who boarded with Charles Lechmere be the key link between Charles Lechmere and MJK through John McCarthy?




    Thoughts please?



    TRD






  • #2
    Pretty sure John McCarthy and family were living in Dorset Street in 1881.
    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DJA View Post
      Pretty sure John McCarthy and family were living in Dorset Street in 1881.
      I think TRD is suggesting that the Ellen McCarthy who was living at 20, James Street in 1881 was Dorset Street JMc’s 2nd cousin.

      Comment


      • #4
        Tracing the genealogy of East End McCarthies is a tricky job. J Mc’s immediate family were in the East End before they moved south of the river, so it’s possible he had second cousins there.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for that MrBarnett. Not at my best at 5.26am.

          Seems she is also related to Kevin Bacon

          Good research,lousy idea.
          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

          Comment


          • #6
            McCarthy was well known in the area. I'm pretty sure he had his thumbs in quite a few pies. In fact I beleive it may of been him who laid on Abberline's farewell drinks when he retired? At the very least he was present.
            "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
            - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DJA View Post
              Thanks for that MrBarnett. Not at my best at 5.26am.

              Seems she is also related to Kevin Bacon

              Good research,lousy idea.

              I have no idea whether Lechmere’s neighbour Ellen McCarthy was related to the Dorset Street man. Her maiden name was McCarthy, so perhaps she was related by blood. Who knows?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post


                I have no idea whether Lechmere’s neighbour Ellen McCarthy was related to the Dorset Street man. Her maiden name was McCarthy, so perhaps she was related by blood. Who knows?
                If TRD is serious in what he’s doing on here, it might be better for him to stick to one topic at a time. Otherwise he’ll find himself being called Th Ubiquitous Rookie Detective.

                (Sorry, couldn’t resist it. It’s not meant personally)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                  Tracing the genealogy of East End McCarthies is a tricky job. J Mc’s immediate family were in the East End before they moved south of the river, so it’s possible he had second cousins there.
                  John was born in France after his parents left Ireland,settling in Southwark and he married in 1877.

                  Anyone know who the great grandparent was that linked Ellen and John?
                  Last edited by DJA; 10-15-2020, 07:24 PM.
                  My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by erobitha View Post
                    McCarthy was well known in the area. I'm pretty sure he had his thumbs in quite a few pies. In fact I beleive it may of been him who laid on Abberline's farewell drinks when he retired? At the very least he was present.
                    Reckon someone had to alert Jack when Barnett moved out.
                    Jack was headed towards Dorset Street when he wrote GSG, after killing the other Mary Ann Kelly.

                    Then there is the forced entry to 13 Millers Court.

                    McCarthy supported the London Hospital.
                    Last edited by DJA; 10-15-2020, 07:26 PM.
                    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DJA View Post

                      Reckon someone had to alert Jack when Barnett moved out.
                      Jack was headed towards Dorset Street when he wrote GSG, after killing the other Mary Ann Kelly.

                      Then there is the forced entry to 13 Millers Court.

                      McCarthy supported the London Hospital.
                      The double event happened long before Barnett left MJK, by about 5 weeks.

                      Rumours have persisted through the years that McCarthy allowed MJK to build up the rent arrears as he was getting some 'freebies' and was giving her more leniency than he would have given many others. I think it was also around 5 weeks rent she owed by that stage. Highly unusual someone would be allowed to build up such a debt over a relatively long period. Was 'Indian Harry' (Bowyer) due to call anyway the next morning or was he prompted to go and collect the outstanding rent off the cuff?
                      "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                      - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DJA View Post

                        John was born in France after his parents left Ireland,settling in Southwark and he married in 1877.

                        Anyone know who the great grandparent was that linked Ellen and John?
                        John’s family lived in the East End before they went to Southwark. And before that his younger brother had been born in rural Hertfordshire. His parents married in London - at St Bride’s Fleet Street - an Anglican church even though the couple were RC. It was the same church where Polly Nichols was married and one of the witnesses was the same.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here’s the McCarthy family’s timeline as I understand it.


                          1820s - Daniel's and Margarets' Births: Ireland (Cork).

                          1846 - Marriage: St Brides, Fleet Street, London (resident in nearby Farringdon Street).

                          1847/8 - John's birth: Dieppe/France/at sea.

                          1849 - Dennis's birth: Digswell, Hertfordshire.

                          1852 - Jeremiah's birth: Vine Passage, Ratcliff.

                          1855 - Mary Ann's birth: Hamlet Court, Ratcliff

                          1858 - Timothy's birth: Slade Court, Southwark.

                          1861 - Census: Red Cross Court, Southwark.

                          1862 - Daniel's birth: Southwark.

                          1864 - Hannah's birth: Southwark

                          1869 - Ellen's birth: Kettleby Court, Whitechapel.

                          1871 - Census: Kettleby Court, Whitechapel.
                          Last edited by MrBarnett; 10-15-2020, 07:44 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by erobitha View Post

                            The double event happened long before Barnett left MJK, by about 5 weeks.
                            Yep. 40 days. No other murders ..... until Barnett moved out.

                            If McCarthy alerted JtR,Blotchy was possibly making sure Mary Kelly was by herself and Hutchinson was the lookout later that night/morning.

                            My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post


                              I have no idea whether Lechmere’s neighbour Ellen McCarthy was related to the Dorset Street man. Her maiden name was McCarthy, so perhaps she was related by blood. Who knows?


                              May i ask how you came to the conclusion that Ellen McCarthy's maiden name was McCarthy?



                              TRD

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