New Suspect named in Special Branch Ledgers

[Trevor Marriott]

I’ve given it a try, but without further details it’s difficult.
No obvious candidates, the few Peter Johnsons are mostly farm workers and such. Johnson would be somewhat unusual for Danish, would be more likely an anglicized Jönsson from Swedish.
Could be a garbled Jensen or Jørgensen, but Peter Jensens and Jørgensens are too common to track down anyone specific.

I’ll look but any further info another source would be very helpful.

The entry in the ledgers is definitely spelt, Johnson

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Fisherman]

A month of hard labour? For attempting to stab a PC? Would he have gotten two months if he succeeded? And three if the PC died?

[rjpalmer]

Johnson would be somewhat unusual for Danish, would be more likely an anglicized Jönsson from Swedish.
Could be a garbled Jensen or Jørgensen, but Peter Jensens and Jørgensens are too common to track down anyone specific.

Thanks. Strange to say, when I looked into this, Danish sailors named Peter Johnson started to show-up at an alarming rate, so I decided to drop it, since the suspect's nationality is unknown. There were two Danish sailors of that name in Liverpool, the bloke already mentioned in the workhouse in 1881, and another in West Ham in 1911. There was a Peter Johnson, sailor, described as Danish, briefly arrested for murder and mutiny in 1878 aboard the 'J.S. Wright,' but his case was dismissed. As you say, most likely the name was being anglicized.

I suspect the 'Peter Johnson,' sailor of 1887, is just a red herring. Unless he belonged to a political organization, why would his name have been turned over to the Special Branch, the political crimes division? That makes no sense.

[rjpalmer]

A month of hard labour? For attempting to stab a PC? Would he have gotten two months if he succeeded? And three if the PC died?

I think the month with hard labour was for attempting to stab the woman. For the PC, the magistrate gave him a strongly worded talking-to.

[Debra A]

I have come across another named suspect from the Special Branch registers which I will share with the community

It was an entry generated by Police Sergeant Leonard who was a Whitechapel police officer likely as not was seconded to Special Branch. The entry read “P Johnson said to be Jack the Ripper” I could find no further information on this man other than census records show that there was a Peter Johnson who was born in 1839 and resided in Thrawl Street Spitalfields. Nothing more is known on this man, other than he was recorded as being single and shown as a general dealer. Another possibility is that the P referred to Phillip. In which case there was a Phillip Johnson shown on the census records as living in Whitechapel, his occupation was described as a skin dresser he would have been 42 years of age in 1888 and a single man. The information source cannot be corroborated as Sgt Leonard may have simply been given this information in the course of his duties which is not helped by no Christian name being given.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Trevor, do you have a first name for Sgt Leonard?

[rjpalmer]

Trevor, do you have a first name for Sgt Leonard?

Sorry for jumping in, but I've been wondering the same thing. There was a William Leonard, H-Division, who worked with Abberline during the disaster at the Jewish theatre in 1887. I haven't confirmed if he was a Police-Sergeant after 1888. It looks like he was a PC in 1881.

But I'm not seeing any reason this has to be him, unless Trevor has a first name.

There was a James Leonard, listed as a Police Sergeant in 1881, in R-Division, Greenwich. He's at the William Street Station, Woolwich. He's still a Sergeant several years later.

They were both born Ireland, so they may have been related, and Irish ancestry would make sense for someone drafted into the Special Branch, but my hunch is that this is the local plod passing on information about suspects to Head Quarters that were foreign nationals, Irish, Irish-American, or members of a subversive group. True, 'Johnson' isn't very Irish, but sometimes the Green married the Orange.

If this was just a run-of-the-mill local man, why would the Special Branch have investigated him, rather than Reid, Abberline, and Co.?

[erobitha]

Sorry for jumping in, but I've been wondering the same thing. There was a William Leonard, H-Division, who worked with Abberline during the disaster at the Jewish theatre in 1887. I haven't confirmed if he was a Police-Sergeant after 1888. It looks like he was a PC in 1881.

But I'm not seeing any reason this has to be him, unless Trevor has a first name.

There was a James Leonard, listed as a Police Sergeant in 1881, in R-Division, Greenwich. He's at the William Street Station, Woolwich. He's still a Sergeant several years later.

They were both born Ireland, so they may have been related, and Irish ancestry would make sense for someone drafted into the Special Branch, but my hunch is that this is the local plod passing on information about suspects to Head Quarters that were foreign nationals, Irish, Irish-American, or members of a subversive group. True, 'Johnson' isn't very Irish, but sometimes the Green married the Orange.

If this was just a run-of-the-mill local man, why would the Special Branch have investigated him, rather than Reid, Abberline, and Co.?

Special Branch was interested in more than just Fenian unrest. Littlechild was a very ambitious man and the Home Office were aware of this. Officially the Metropolitan Special Branch was originally called 'The Irish Special Branch' but that was changed in 1888 to just 'Special Branch'. Officially not involved with the Ripper case, Littlechild's fingerprints appear in more than one place in the whole affair. I believe the crown and Scotland Yard wanted more resource assigned on the case as their faith in Warren wavered after the double event, especially after his strange decision to remove a potentially important clue (GSG). Littlechild pointed the finger at Tumblety, with literally no evidence or reason, which in my view was a deliberate red herring. Why?

[rjpalmer]

Special Branch was interested in more than just Fenian unrest. Littlechild was a very ambitious man and the Home Office were aware of this. Officially the Metropolitan Special Branch was originally called 'The Irish Special Branch' but that was changed in 1888 to just 'Special Branch'. Officially not involved with the Ripper case, Littlechild's fingerprints appear in more than one place in the whole affair. I believe the crown and Scotland Yard wanted more resource assigned on the case as their faith in Warren wavered after the double event, especially after his strange decision to remove a potentially important clue (GSG). Littlechild pointed the finger at Tumblety, with literally no evidence or reason, which in my view was a deliberate red herring. Why?

I'm afraid that I'm not particularly interested in wild conspiracy theories, but thanks anyway.

The main focus of the Special Branch in the late 1880s was still the threat of violent Irish Nationalists, though this waned somewhat in the 1890s as the Continental anarchists were on the up-tick, and the conspirators in the United States self-destructed due to political in-fighting.

Your theory is a strange one. Why voice a 'deliberate red herring' 25 years after-the-fact, during one's retirement, while writing a private letter?

It's a little late in the day for a cover-up, don't ya think, especially when Sims has already made up his mind and is publicly voicing a rather innocuous case solution?

No; it doesn't work. And anyway, we are discussing "P. Johnson."

[erobitha]

no comment

[Debra A]

Sorry for jumping in, but I've been wondering the same thing. There was a William Leonard, H-Division, who worked with Abberline during the disaster at the Jewish theatre in 1887. I haven't confirmed if he was a Police-Sergeant after 1888. It looks like he was a PC in 1881.

But I'm not seeing any reason this has to be him, unless Trevor has a first name.

There was a James Leonard, listed as a Police Sergeant in 1881, in R-Division, Greenwich. He's at the William Street Station, Woolwich. He's still a Sergeant several years later.

They were both born Ireland, so they may have been related, and Irish ancestry would make sense for someone drafted into the Special Branch, but my hunch is that this is the local plod passing on information about suspects to Head Quarters that were foreign nationals, Irish, Irish-American, or members of a subversive group. True, 'Johnson' isn't very Irish, but sometimes the Green married the Orange.

If this was just a run-of-the-mill local man, why would the Special Branch have investigated him, rather than Reid, Abberline, and Co.?

Thanks, R.J.
I wasn't sure if I had missed something obvious or not. If Trevor knows this Sgt Leonard is H Division then I wondered if there was information connected that hasn't been posted. Or maybe the H Division thing is speculation and there's even less information to work on than it first seems.

[Trevor Marriott]

Trevor, do you have a first name for Sgt Leonard?

Hi Debs
Sorry no first name it was simply a one-line entry, which like other entries relating to the ripper from the registers leave us guessing.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Trevor Marriott]

Sorry for jumping in, but I've been wondering the same thing. There was a William Leonard, H-Division, who worked with Abberline during the disaster at the Jewish theatre in 1887. I haven't confirmed if he was a Police-Sergeant after 1888. It looks like he was a PC in 1881.

But I'm not seeing any reason this has to be him, unless Trevor has a first name.

There was a James Leonard, listed as a Police Sergeant in 1881, in R-Division, Greenwich. He's at the William Street Station, Woolwich. He's still a Sergeant several years later.

They were both born Ireland, so they may have been related, and Irish ancestry would make sense for someone drafted into the Special Branch, but my hunch is that this is the local plod passing on information about suspects to Head Quarters that were foreign nationals, Irish, Irish-American, or members of a subversive group. True, 'Johnson' isn't very Irish, but sometimes the Green married the Orange.

If this was just a run-of-the-mill local man, why would the Special Branch have investigated him, rather than Reid, Abberline, and Co.?

The answer to your question is that these SB records were what I would call an early collators system which meant that for example if Sgt Leonard came by this information by whatever the source was it would have been fed into the system and recorded, irrespective of whether there was any substance to the information or whether it was just hearsay or malicious.

We don't know if they did investigate him, or whether or not it was passed down to those investigating the ripper. I would have thought that if SB thought they could arrest and detect the murders they might have gone for it themselves just for their own kudos

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Debra A]

Hi Debs
Sorry no first name it was simply a one-line entry, which like other entries relating to the ripper from the registers leave us guessing.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Thanks, Trevor. Was there a mention of him being H Division?

[Trevor Marriott]

Thanks, Trevor. Was there a mention of him being H Division?

No that was speculation on my part sorry

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Debra A]

No that was speculation on my part sorry

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Thanks. I don't know if that makes it easier or harder!