New Suspect named in Special Branch Ledgers

[New Waterloo]

The Daily News on 6th October 1888 describes a suspicious incident where two men in a carriage deposit a woman on the pavement in Brick Lane. A man named Johnson was arrested by the police but released as the woman was said to be his wife. Very strange episode indeed. Will try to locate press entry.

NW

[New Waterloo]

There is a record of a British Subject born Bremen, Germany around 1843, Able Seaman on sea going Vessel called Marna. The home port for the Marna is Leith Scotland but I would imagine the ship could travel to many ports. Possibly the same man as the Peter Johnson 210 Cable Street.

[New Waterloo]

I have been a little research on the name P Johnson and I have got about as far as I am able and I think there are many of you with more research experience to perhaps have a look at what I have found. To start with there is a Peter Johnson in the 1881 Census living at 210 Cable Street, St George in the East, London. Now there are numerous Peter Johnsons living all over London and everywhere else. It is as you will all know a very common name. This one stands out because in the Census;

1881, 210 Cable Street

His occupation is Seaman

Born, Germany (later records show him at British Subject born Germany)

Married to Elizabeth JOHNSON

also with a young son at the address also called Peter JOHNSON

Bear with me this is the interesting bit I think

There are other families living at 210 Cable Street and the one that stands out is

the Mackness family with the head of the family I believe William Mackness (havnt got it in front of me) from Holme same sort of area as Abberlines first wife, perhaps relatives

Also I have a marriage certificate for Peter Johnson and his wife and her maiden name was Elizabeth A ROWE. They married in 1877.

Peter Johnson appears in the 1891 Census living as a lodger. still at Cable Street but I think 116 or somewhere like that. His wife and child have disappeared.

Hopefully this should stir something. Thank you

I am just getting a feeling about this man, perhaps its the Dock connection, well the names as well. wasnt there something about Barnett being married to somebody called ROWE

Thanks again

NW

[Prosector]

Interesting that the Phillip Johnson that Trevor mentioned was a skin dresser. Skin dressers, otherwise known as fellmongers, were highly skilled at skinning and butchering animals (usually cattle) and possessed knives as tools of their trade although the flensing knives that they used tended to be shorter with sturdier pointed blades rather than the long narrow bladed knife that Dr Bagster Phillips proposed at the inquests. They also tended to be fairly conspicuous in the community because they stank of rancid animal fat that that clung to their persons and their clothing so that most people gave them a wide berth. I discovered all this when I was researching fellmongers many years ago.

[Trevor Marriott]

There

To be clear I suspect that MAY have been just first initial rather than full name. Or even that the Sgt didn’t think much of the information at first, but later thought, “That needs to be recorded” and then couldn’t remember if he was told Peter, Paul, Philip or whatever.

There was an awful lot of hearsay along with malicious information that was recorded but without access to the follow-up files we can only work with what we have.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[GUT]

That is another possibility. In my early days in the police, the collators system included just such types of information which was automatically recorded

Trevor

To be clear I suspect that MAY have been just first initial rather than full name. Or even that the Sgt didn’t think much of the information at first, but later thought, “That needs to be recorded” and then couldn’t remember if he was told Peter, Paul, Philip or whatever.

[Trevor Marriott]

Or just that it was all the Sgt had been told in the form of second hand information.

That is another possibility. In my early days in the police, the collators system included just such types of information which was automatically recorded

Trevor

[GUT]

Hi, Trevor.

Would the fact that Sgt Leonard refers to this individual only by his initial, rather than his given name, suggest that this "P Johnson said to be Jack the Ripper" was someone already widely known within SB circles and thus someone whose full name he wouldn't need to give them?

Or just that it was all the Sgt had been told in the form of second hand information.

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi, Trevor.

Would the fact that Sgt Leonard refers to this individual only by his initial, rather than his given name, suggest that this "P Johnson said to be Jack the Ripper" was someone already widely known within SB circles and thus someone whose full name he wouldn't need to give them?

Hi
I don't know the answer to that. I would call these registers an early collators system for SB so it would depend on how the info was recorded, but of course we do not know what, if any action was taken as a result of this information being recorded because the main file to which this entry related to is now long gone.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Bridewell]

I have come across another named suspect from the Special Branch registers which I will share with the community

It was an entry generated by Police Sergeant Leonard who was a Whitechapel police officer likely as not was seconded to Special Branch. The entry read “P Johnson said to be Jack the Ripper” I could find no further information on this man other than census records show that there was a Peter Johnson who was born in 1839 and resided in Thrawl Street Spitalfields. Nothing more is known on this man, other than he was recorded as being single and shown as a general dealer. Another possibility is that the P referred to Phillip. In which case there was a Phillip Johnson shown on the census records as living in Whitechapel, his occupation was described as a skin dresser he would have been 42 years of age in 1888 and a single man. The information source cannot be corroborated as Sgt Leonard may have simply been given this information in the course of his duties which is not helped by no Christian name being given.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Hi, Trevor.

Would the fact that Sgt Leonard refers to this individual only by his initial, rather than his given name, suggest that this "P Johnson said to be Jack the Ripper" was someone already widely known within SB circles and thus someone whose full name he wouldn't need to give them?

[Fisherman]

I think the month with hard labour was for attempting to stab the woman. For the PC, the magistrate gave him a strongly worded talking-to.

Served him right!

[Debra A]

No that was speculation on my part sorry

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Thanks. I don't know if that makes it easier or harder!

[Trevor Marriott]

Thanks, Trevor. Was there a mention of him being H Division?

No that was speculation on my part sorry

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Debra A]

Hi Debs
Sorry no first name it was simply a one-line entry, which like other entries relating to the ripper from the registers leave us guessing.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Thanks, Trevor. Was there a mention of him being H Division?

[Trevor Marriott]

Sorry for jumping in, but I've been wondering the same thing. There was a William Leonard, H-Division, who worked with Abberline during the disaster at the Jewish theatre in 1887. I haven't confirmed if he was a Police-Sergeant after 1888. It looks like he was a PC in 1881.

But I'm not seeing any reason this has to be him, unless Trevor has a first name.

There was a James Leonard, listed as a Police Sergeant in 1881, in R-Division, Greenwich. He's at the William Street Station, Woolwich. He's still a Sergeant several years later.

They were both born Ireland, so they may have been related, and Irish ancestry would make sense for someone drafted into the Special Branch, but my hunch is that this is the local plod passing on information about suspects to Head Quarters that were foreign nationals, Irish, Irish-American, or members of a subversive group. True, 'Johnson' isn't very Irish, but sometimes the Green married the Orange.

If this was just a run-of-the-mill local man, why would the Special Branch have investigated him, rather than Reid, Abberline, and Co.?

The answer to your question is that these SB records were what I would call an early collators system which meant that for example if Sgt Leonard came by this information by whatever the source was it would have been fed into the system and recorded, irrespective of whether there was any substance to the information or whether it was just hearsay or malicious.

We don't know if they did investigate him, or whether or not it was passed down to those investigating the ripper. I would have thought that if SB thought they could arrest and detect the murders they might have gone for it themselves just for their own kudos

www.trevormarriott.co.uk