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  • Lechmere validity

    Of all the known credible suspects; am i correct in stating that Lechmere is the only one thus far who can be directly connected to an actual murder site?

    i am aware that the jury is still out regarding Lechmere, with some being pro-Lechmere and others anti-Lechmere in terms of his validity as a suspect, but maybe looking closer at him will help to establish a more conclusive argument for either viewpoint respectively.

    I've been trying to connect Lechmere to another victim, working of course with an open mind and on the basis of following where my research takes me.

    What better place to start than with a suspect who was actually present at one of the murders!

    so... pro & anti Lechmereians, open minded thoughts and theories please?


    the rookie detective

  • #2
    He is definitely among the top 3 Suspects.

    Comment


    • #3
      Lechmere is definitely a person of interest, although probably not as much as some think.

      In answer to your question, no he is not the only suspect that can be directly connected to an actual murder site.

      An unknown soldier can be connected to Mrs Tabram's murder site.

      PC Neil, Paul, the Harrison and Barber employees and Lechmere have been named as suspects to Mrs Nichols site.

      John Davis at Mrs Chapman's murder site.

      Lewis Deimshitz and other club members at Mrs Strides.

      The warehouse watchman, who's name escapes me for the moment, PC Watkins and Lawende and co. at Catherine Eddowes.

      Mr Blotchy and Hutchinson at Mary Kelly's.

      Basically everyone connected to a site has been accused at some stage.
      dustymiller
      aka drstrange

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      • #4
        Joseph Barnett is a suspect and he lived with Mary Jane Kelly and so is connected to a murder site.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm pro-Lechmere. He's the only "suspect" with the best chance at being at all the murder sites. The Eddowes site is on his way to his mother's house - the rest on his route to work. Kosminski would also be a good suspect as he lived close to all murder sites. Most of the others either have an alibi for some of the crimes or were not know to be in the area at all. I opt for Cross over Kosminski as Kosminski never displayed violent behaviour after he was put in the nut-house for threatening his sister with a knife. No recorded violence on his part is recorded and I'm sure his spoken English would have brought attention to "witnesses" as being "a foreigner" - but no menion is made of anyone with a Polish accent being someone seen talking to any of the victims.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Snidery_Mark View Post
            I'm pro-Lechmere. He's the only "suspect" with the best chance at being at all the murder sites. The Eddowes site is on his way to his mother's house - the rest on his route to work. Kosminski would also be a good suspect as he lived close to all murder sites. Most of the others either have an alibi for some of the crimes or were not know to be in the area at all. I opt for Cross over Kosminski as Kosminski never displayed violent behaviour after he was put in the nut-house for threatening his sister with a knife. No recorded violence on his part is recorded and I'm sure his spoken English would have brought attention to "witnesses" as being "a foreigner" - but no menion is made of anyone with a Polish accent being someone seen talking to any of the victims.
            Along with a few thousand others Id expect
            G U T

            There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

            Comment


            • #7
              >>The Eddowes site is on his way to his mother's house<<

              ???

              It is in the opposite direction!


              >>- the rest on his route to work.<<

              Hanbury Street was, as it was for Paul, in fact Paul worked, literally, a stones throw away, but there is not a shred of evidence, to date, to connect his route to any of the other sites.


              >>I opt for Cross over Kosminski as Kosminski never displayed violent behaviour <<

              Did Charles Allen Lechmere ever exhibit violent behaviour?


              >> ... no menion is made of anyone with a Polish accent being someone seen talking to any of the victims.<<

              Assuming any witness actually saw and heard the killer.
              dustymiller
              aka drstrange

              Comment


              • #8
                "The Eddowes site is on his way to his mother's house"


                It is in the opposite direction! Sorry, I meant Stride - the only one South of Whitechapel Road. Cross' mum lived in Berner Street


                "the rest on his route to work."

                Hanbury Street was, as it was for Paul, in fact Paul worked, literally, a stones throw away, but there is not a shred of evidence, to date, to connect his route to any of the other sites.


                "I opt for Cross over Kosminski as Kosminski never displayed violent behaviour"

                Did Charles Allen Lechmere ever exhibit violent behaviour? No, but Kosminski's accusers tend to believe that he was a violent psychopath and mentally deranged, yet the mental institutions he was incarcerated in don't mention any violent behaviour. It is easier to accuse someone who's behaviour we know very little about rather than someone who's behaviour we do know about but does not suit the perpetrator.


                " ... no mention is made of anyone with a Polish accent being someone seen talking to any of the victims."

                Assuming any witness actually saw and heard the killer. Aye, there's the rub! Most purported "witnesses" do not mention a foreign accent in regards to the men seen talking to victims near the times of their deaths. I'm sure that if, for example, the man talking to Mary Kelly had said "How ya goin', cobber?" in a broad Australian accent, Mr Hutchinson would have mentioned the fact.

                The more I read, the more confused I get, but I don't disagree with any of your comments, Mr Miller.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post
                  Of all the known credible suspects; am i correct in stating that Lechmere is the only one thus far who can be directly connected to an actual murder site?
                  Lechmere is not a known, credible suspect.

                  And no, there are many others, as Drstrange pointed out.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    >> Cross' mum lived in Berner Street<<

                    Maryann Street;-)

                    My favourite suspect is Eddie McGuire, he's done everything else.

                    dustymiller
                    aka drstrange

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Snidery_Mark View Post
                      but no menion is made of anyone with a Polish accent being someone seen talking to any of the victims.
                      Elizabeth Long described a man speaking to Annie Chapman with a foreign accent.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kattrup View Post
                        Lechmere is not a known, credible suspect.

                        And no, there are many others, as Drstrange pointed out.
                        Somewhere in Sweden a man is doing this
                        Regards

                        Herlock






                        "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Snidery_Mark View Post

                          "I opt for Cross over Kosminski as Kosminski never displayed violent behaviour"

                          Did Charles Allen Lechmere ever exhibit violent behaviour? No, but Kosminski's accusers tend to believe that he was a violent psychopath and mentally deranged, yet the mental institutions he was incarcerated in don't mention any violent behaviour. It is easier to accuse someone who's behaviour we know very little about rather than someone who's behaviour we do know about but does not suit the perpetrator.

                          He is recorded as being excitable at times and takes up a chair at least once. ( it mentioned once , but as an example, not that it's the only occurrence)

                          The main issue of course is that very few records of his time in the asylums remains, so it is not possible to say how violent he was.

                          We do know of course that he did threaten his sister( or sister in law) with a knife.

                          And of course he need not show any violence anyway, it's just an assumption that many make.

                          Steve

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post
                            Of all the known credible suspects; am i correct in stating that Lechmere is the only one thus far who can be directly connected to an actual murder site?

                            i am aware that the jury is still out regarding Lechmere, with some being pro-Lechmere and others anti-Lechmere in terms of his validity as a suspect, but maybe looking closer at him will help to establish a more conclusive argument for either viewpoint respectively.

                            I've been trying to connect Lechmere to another victim, working of course with an open mind and on the basis of following where my research takes me.

                            What better place to start than with a suspect who was actually present at one of the murders!

                            so... pro & anti Lechmereians, open minded thoughts and theories please?


                            the rookie detective
                            hi rookie
                            my favored suspect is very similar to lech-George Hutchinson. I don't really see any other named suspects that have an actual direct physical connection to a murder site/victim that also have so many other red flags about them.

                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Snidery_Mark View Post
                              I'm pro-Lechmere. He's the only "suspect" with the best chance at being at all the murder sites.

                              The key word here is "suspect", isn't it? It seems quite clear that he wasn't suspected by the police to whom he told his version of events. He wasn't mentioned by officials, publicly or privately, in the years immediately following, a'la Kosminski, Druitt, Tumblety, Ostrog, etc. He wasn't proposed as the killer by the those who knew him, the police, or contemporary press because he committed a crime or crimes that led to the idea of a possible connection the Whitechapel murders, as were Deeming, Chapman/Klosowski, Feigenbaum, Cream, Szemeredy, a few others. He appeared as a witness at the inquest and then, as best we can tell, had no interest or desire for further involvement, thus he's not been proposed as suspect by more modern researches because he showed an "odd interest" in the crimes, as can be said Sickert and D'Onston, and others. He's a "suspect" only because someone says he was. Which is fine. There's just nothing at all to "elevate" him above any of other lower-tier, long-shot "candidates".

                              As for his having the "best chance of having been at all the murder sites", I'm sure you've been to the crime scenes and thus you know how close they are to one another. Thus, by virtue of his having found Nichols', and knowing his assumed, approximate route, it's clear that his route to work is close to all the murder sites. The same can be said of Robert Paul and countless other working people who's sole and primary mode of transportation was their feet. This is THE REASON he found Nichols.

                              What would be odd is if he found Nichols and his route to work was nowhere near Buck's Row. Think if Druitt has found any of the victims. He lived and worked in Blackheath. Cross walked from Doveton Street to Pickford's in Broad Street six days a week for more than twenty years, as best we can tell. Nichols' body lay directly on his route between those two points.

                              Keep in mind, close to one means close to all. Nichols was found in Buck's Row, about 900 yards from Chapman in Hanbury Street, and about 1000 yards from Stride in Berner Street, around 1800 yards from Mitre Square, and some 1300 years from Miller's Court.



                              Kosminski would also be a good suspect as he lived close to all murder sites. Most of the others either have an alibi for some of the crimes or were not know to be in the area at all. I opt for Cross over Kosminski as Kosminski never displayed violent behaviour after he was put in the nut-house for threatening his sister with a knife. No recorded violence on his part is recorded.....

                              Wonderful point you make here. And what violence do we know Cross/Lechmere committed? In his lifetime. Before or after 1888. We have no evidence he threatened anyone with knife. Not his sister. Not his wife of 50 years. None of his 11 children. None of his likely hundreds of coworkers in his 20 years at Pickford's. Further, we've no evidence of his ever having been "put in a nut-house", as was Kosminski. Yet, you "opt for Cross over Kosminski"? To me, this seems odd.

                              ....and I'm sure his spoken English would have brought attention to "witnesses" as being "a foreigner" - but no mention is made of anyone with a Polish accent being someone seen talking to any of the victims.

                              I'm not defending Kosminski as a "suspect" because I remain unconvinced. However, I think it's unlikely any of the witnesses heard the killer speak. Recall that Long claims to have seen Chapman with a man at 530am. Which puts her murder more than 90 minutes after Cross/Lechmere started work at Pickford's. Further, the only words she heard this man say was, "Will you". She did, however, say the man "appeared to be a foreigner". I'd mention that my mother-in-law is Chinese. Has a very think accent. When speaking only a few words such as this her accent is not apparent. Marshall is unlikely to have seen Stride with her killer. He saw a woman that looked like Stride with a man at 1145pm. This is unlikely to have been the man PC Smith saw her in the company of at 1135pm... who may not have been the man who Schwartz saw attack her at 1245pm. The most likely person seen with a victim was outside Church Passage, by Lawende. No one heard that man speak.
                              Thanks for posting. See above bold.
                              Last edited by Patrick S; 05-09-2019, 01:28 PM.

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