Let's narrow down some Ripper 'facts'

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon
Nobody can confirm Bond on this count, even not Bond himself.
He didn't know at what time Kelly had her last meal, and you don't know either.
His estimation of MJK ToD is therefore baseless, and the investigators would have been stupid to dismiss or favour a witness accordingly. Cos indeed, Bond's TOD is a mere speculation : he speculated that Mary ate at around 10:00 or 11:00, God knows why.
For the rest, he admitted rigidity could have set in within 6...or 12 hours.

You have no idea how this works do you.
No medical opinion is precise. The police needed one they could trust, this is why Warren requested Bond to study the murders.

Bond's report was specifically requested to assist the police with their enquiries, not to file away as a curiosity. The police intended to use it and this is what Anderson did due to the failure of Macdonald to provide a time of death.

There is no-one on the police force who can question the opinion of Dr. Bond, he is the professional not them. Once given that report is used by the detective force regardless of what time Kelly ate her last meal. That is completely irrelevant.
The scientific accuracy in the 19th century of this report is not the point. The fact that it appeared precisely at the time of the shift in focus by the police is the important issue, considering it takes the pressure of the Hutchinson side of the investigation.

That is what matters.

Regards, Jon S.

[Malcolm X]

Harry.
When you brought up Schwartz, I was anticipating you making a comparison between BS-man and Blotchy.
I was simply offering that up as a possibility.

Regards, Jon S.

If you take a 50% error in sighting accuracy, could be more depending on how dark it is, Blotchy could easily be BS

[Wickerman]

Jon,
The short answer to your last question to me,how could a thin brown moustache grow into a bushy red one? is that two different suggestions were made by two different persons,to two different receptive witnesses.

Harry.
When you brought up Schwartz, I was anticipating you making a comparison between BS-man and Blotchy.
I was simply offering that up as a possibility.

Regards, Jon S.

[Malcolm X]

Excellent question. Both are plausible (see Garry's reply to Caz). In fact, there are several possibilities, depends whether he was known to her or not, and if he was, did he strike as soon as he got in or not ?

yea', i think you have to go with what feels right, not a lot else that i can say

i doubt he struck as soon as he got in, because if invited in rather than walking off, this means she died at 3am.... so you can forget OH MURDER

i expect he broke in and killed her instantly, as she was waking up at 4am, or he killed her after having sex with her, from back at 3am.

you see, he was deffo outside from 2 to 3, so after this is anybodies guess, but the clue maybe OH MURDER at 4am, you see, 3am is still a bit early to kill, he's much safer at 4am.... especially if Bowyer is still around and regardless of all the twaddle being said, i expect some of it was true.... or even that Ventura woman.

[Malcolm X]

Here is the real McCoy who can curl up his moustache at will and is obviously an insane foreigner :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK4Bh_arF-E

ha ha

Jacob Levy looks as though he's too small for LA DE DA, 5FT 3'' and only 9.5 stone, Jacob Levy is tiny, really tiny, i was this weight when i was 15.

``he didn't look as if he could hurt another person``, plus he had a slim build, well this is not G.Chapman either, he looks medium build, but he's wearing a tight jacket like Charlie Chaplin so this is fooling you....he also looks nasty as well.

you see, it's not just one or two things that's wrong with these top suspects, there's quite a few other things as well.

strangely enough, GH is not a shrinking violet like Schwartz, he's much more in LA DE DA's face, a bit like Broadshoulders, i cant detect much with him, but from his statement he seems ``durable``, it seems like from his statement that he's holding back, because if he stooped to stare in LA DE DA's face, this is definitely an aggressive move.... not much i know, just sort of something!

[DVV]

- did he go in at 3am after someone else left, or did he walk off to return later at 3.55am.

Excellent question. Both are plausible (see Garry's reply to Caz). In fact, there are several possibilities, depends whether he was known to her or not, and if he was, did he strike as soon as he got in or not ?

[Garry Wroe]

I just cannot see him [Hutchinson] needing to wait outside in the court for 45 minutes if he knew Mary was alone in her room. What would he have been waiting for exactly?

Why does a burglar wait until a family is sleeping before entering a property?

And what would have made him decide the time was finally right to let himself into the room?

Assuming for the sake of argument that Hutchinson did enter Kelly’s room, he would have waited until such time as he felt it safe to do so. Just like our burglar, he would have minimized the risk of disturbing anyone or being disturbed himself.

This is basic common sense. The killer could have committed his offences during daylight hours had he so chosen, at a time when potential victims were far more plentiful. Instead he elected to kill during the small hours. Although this strategy meant that he had far fewer potential victims at his disposal, it also dramatically increased his chances of escaping detection. It is the principle of risk and reward.

He must have been watching and waiting for someone to come out, because it all fits and the alternative makes no sense.

Although I tend to agree with your basic premise, it is by no means the only explanation that makes sense. He may simply have been waiting until the streets were largely deserted before making his move. He may have observed Mrs Cox flitting in and out of the court. He may have been unnerved by the appearance of Sarah Lewis. He may also have feared an unexpected appearance by Barnett or Julia. We simply don’t know. But the fact that he subsequently claimed to have spent a few minutes directly outside Kelly’s room shortly before three o’clock is strongly suggestive that this was the time at which he entered the room, if indeed he did enter it. Either way, that he neglected to disclose such detail to Abberline is extraordinary, and not a little suspicious.

[Malcolm X]

Hi Ben,

You talk in general terms about documented 'intruder' killers, whereas I was asking for specifics that would have applied in Hutch's case, if you have him as an intruder who kills Mary Kelly.

A vital question here is whether Kelly and Hutch were complete strangers or known to each other. Was Hutch familiar with Miller's Court and its comings and goings or entirely unfamiliar?

I just cannot see him needing to wait outside in the court for 45 minutes if he knew Mary was alone in her room. What would he have been waiting for exactly? And what would have made him decide the time was finally right to let himself into the room? He must have been watching and waiting for someone to come out, because it all fits and the alternative makes no sense.

Love,

Caz
X

no one can answer this i'm afraid, it just makes so much sense that he was waiting there for someone to leave and for her to go to sleep afterwards.

[DVV]

Here is the real McCoy who can curl up his moustache at will and is obviously an insane foreigner :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK4Bh_arF-E

[Malcolm X]

i've found LA DE DA, he's the Duke of Earl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bw55sR4ec8&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=AVGxdCwVVULXen3fgUm8JJ7L8tCPQKMkXY

[The Good Michael]

I just cannot see him needing to wait outside in the court for 45 minutes if he knew Mary was alone in her room. What would he have been waiting for exactly? And what would have made him decide the time was finally right to let himself into the room? He must have been watching and waiting for someone to come out, because it all fits and the alternative makes no sense.

Caz,

Just because, okay? And I'm sure he knew that no matter how wet he might get, he could build a roaring fire to dry out. You see Hutch was so sure of himself, he knew he had hours of playtime. Why? he already had a great story. It involved Romford... and ... other things.

Mike

[caz]

Hi Ben,

You talk in general terms about documented 'intruder' killers, whereas I was asking for specifics that would have applied in Hutch's case, if you have him as an intruder who kills Mary Kelly.

A vital question here is whether Kelly and Hutch were complete strangers or known to each other. Was Hutch familiar with Miller's Court and its comings and goings or entirely unfamiliar?

I just cannot see him needing to wait outside in the court for 45 minutes if he knew Mary was alone in her room. What would he have been waiting for exactly? And what would have made him decide the time was finally right to let himself into the room? He must have been watching and waiting for someone to come out, because it all fits and the alternative makes no sense.

Love,

Caz
X

[Malcolm X]

I'm anticipating Malcolm jumping down your throat for using unsolicited newspaper reports
I guess I'll have a long wait...



.Regards, Jon S.

LOL.... NO, because her description of Blotchy remains constant, it's women like Kennedy etc that crawl out of the woodwork that annoy me, or MJK being seen in the morning...... enough said.

the time GH waited is known, he can not afford to get this wrong, it has to be deadly accurate, but what we dont know is:- did he go in at 3am after someone else left, or did he walk off to return later at 3.55am.

my guess is he saw someone leave, waited to see if MJK was going to sleep, this was confirmed and then walked off to return at 3.55.

he knew what the hell was going on, because as he said, he kept sneaking in and out of the court, it's flipping dead easy to do what he did..... because it's not exactly hard to tell what's going on in there, the windows broken, so he'll be able to hear them whispering, him coughing etc... let alone them talking normally, in fact, the whole court will be able to hear them talking normally, sound travels so easily at night !

none of this is mentioned by the Witnesses, well no, because they're so useless, plus drunk.

i live in an end terrace, and if the girl 4 houses away has her window open in the summer you can hear everything at 4am, she's like MJK too, arent they all nowadays !

[Garry Wroe]

Then appeared Hutchinson. The police make him witness No.1, which lasted for something like 24 hrs?

Which just happens to be the very scenario against which you have been arguing for the past year or so.

Warren requested Bond's analysis for the police to use. It was in Anderson's hands before the 13th, which is when the Met, shifted gears from Hutchinson back to Cox.

Same again.

[Garry Wroe]

I lose count of how many posts where you have claimed that Hutchinson was lying.

Then it shouldn’t be too difficult for you to reproduce one in which I have stated that Dew called Hutchinson a liar. That, after all, was your explicit accusation. So prove me wrong and locate just one of these many examples.

With that in mind, what I was alluding to is your attempt to now enroll Walter Dew as if he supported your contention, which he does not.

This would be my contention that Hutchinson’s story was discredited by the authorities? Here’s what Dew wrote: ‘I can see no other explanation in this case than that Mrs Maxwell and George Hutchison were wrong.’

Wrong.

Dew didn’t accept Hutchinson’s story. Not only did he repudiate it, he placed it in the same category as Carrie Maxwell’s demonstrably unreliable claims. The issue couldn’t be any clearer.

You have claimed Hutchinson was lying, Dew makes it clear in his opinion Hutchinson was not a liar, mistaken perhaps, just like Maxwell.

Hallelujah! Finally, at last, we have the admission you’ve been attempting to avoid all along. Thus, if Hutchinson was ‘mistaken’, so too was his claim relating to the meeting with Kelly and her subsequent encounter with Astrakhan. It doesn’t matter how you dress it up. None of this occurred as and when Hutchinson asserted in his police statement.

No-one found fault with Hutchinson's story, nor any part of his claims …

Of course not. That’s why Dew bracketed him with Carrie Maxwell and Anderson dismissed him in favour of an inferior witness when conducting the Seaside Home identification.

… therefore he was never dismissed as a liar, which runs contrary to your assertions.

He was dismissed. That’s what counts. It matters not one iota whether the authorities believed him to have been honestly mistaken or a profiteering liar. The simple fact of the matter is that his story came to be disregarded. You can quibble over semantic nuances all you like, but the reality is that you are plain wrong in continuing to assert that Hutchinson provided accurate information to the police.