Have Ripperologists Been Polled As To Who They Think Jack Really Was?

[Malcolm X]

It wouldn't be that hard to copycat, given that the wounds inflicted were well documented, it would be quite easy to do so, but the reasons against this are.

1..... it's highly unlikely that you'd see two mutilators suddenly killing in this small area of London and at the same time

2..... why copycat to shift the blame to JTR instead of you?...... the police are bloody useless, they'll never catch you, so there's no point bothering hiding your crime.... nobody else did, it looks like a free for all mini crime wave, two for the price of one !

3.....it's far more likely that JTR might encourage someone else to simply go out and cut throats only, rather than to mutilate

4.... It takes a real sicko to gut and mutilate someone, it's totally revolting, it would sicken most killers, this type is pretty rare and definitely not two at once in Whitechapel.... no way!

we're not talking about copycats here, because what we really mean is a mutilator at large, plus also a run of the mill cut- throat killer, both of these killers would need to stalk their prey in virtually the same way, thus they look like one person only.....it is almost definitely this.

the other killer has not mutilated, when the chances were there to do so and this is very important, in a few of these, it looks like the killer has walked off with the victim still alive, this too is important.

[Malcolm X]

Hello Jon. A remarkable post. The nub is:

"if we call on Special Pleading to include Stride as a Ripper victim we also require Special Pleading to exclude Coles."

Here is a short thought experiment to help motivate thought about Annie and Kate.

Q1: Who had the more extensive mutilations, Annie or Kate?

Q2: Who supposedly had more organs extracted, Annie or Kate?

Q3: How long did Bagster Phillips estimate the mutilations on Annie took?

Q4: How long the estimate on Kate?

THE BIG Q: Given the answers above, why were Kate's mutilations thought to take a good bit LESS time?

Quandary: Could it be that Bagster and Baxter knew whereof they spake when they referred to Kate's mutilations as "unskilful" and Annie's as "skilful"?

Cheers.
LC

you're getting far too involved in the nitty gritty, this is causing you to see things that aren't there and if there, are due to varying circumstances, such as time available, the killers mood, inexperience, different medical opinions at that time etc

try to look much wider, because it's highly unlikely that this is more than one person that's mutilating..... and the most likely is that the last 3 are definitely the same killer

[Rubyretro]

we're not talking about copycats here, because what we really mean is a mutilator at large, plus also a run of the mill cut- throat killer,

Gosh Malcolm -that's quite a cruel remark..I'd hate to be dismissed as only a "run of the mill cut-throat killer", never quite in the "mutilator at large" league..

Maybe it was nasty jibes like this that fuelled Jack's motivation ?

[Malcolm X]

Gosh Malcolm -that's quite a cruel remark..I'd hate to be dismissed as only a "run of the mill cut-throat killer", never quite in the "mutilator at large" league..

Maybe it was nasty jibes like this that fuelled Jack's motivation ?

i'm just differentiating between the two that's all, we have a mutilator at work in Whitechapel, plus another killer that doesn't, there's nothing cruel about what i've said, or ment to be.

i.e i doubt that JTR is responsible for the torsos, but i'm not sure about Mackenzie etc.

JTR was not motivated by nastiness, his murders reveal little sadism, unlike Bundy or Sutcliffe, he's killing for a reason that i'm not sure about, it's most odd, it is semi-madness/ occult etc and i think the anti- semetism is him playing a game with the police, or he's upset about poor employment prospects etc.

i'm 100 miles away from what it is, just like 6 years ago, but the oddest thing of all is JTR stopping or downgrading and stopping, this to me is very strange.

mind you, you cant really be sadistic out on the streets can you, or she'll scream etc etc, which will attract attention to you, so all of this JTR stuff is full of contradictions, because maybe JTR was a nasty bastard back at home with his girlfriends, maybe ending up with torsos or poisoning etc, but out on the streets he has to kill quickly, so maybe he cant afford to be nasty/sadistic.

all of this is very confusing

[DVV]

Hi Malcolm

i think the anti- semetism is him playing a game with the police, or he's upset about poor employment prospects etc.

Certainly so, imo.

i'm 100 miles away from what it is

No, you can't even know the distance

but the oddest thing of all is JTR stopping or downgrading and stopping

Very odd, indeed...

this to me is very strange

...unless it was a scenario à la Kemper.

[Rubyretro]

[QUOTE]JTR was not motivated by nastiness[/QUOTE

Obviously, I was wrong. I'm sorry.

[Malcolm X]

[QUOTE=Rubyretro;200985]

JTR was not motivated by nastiness[/QUOTE

Obviously, I was wrong. I'm sorry.

oh no no dont be sorry, sometimes my posts can seem very cold, i'm searaching for clues all the time and something that's different.

5 murders.... 5 points on a Pentagon! every murder is a blood sacrafice and the last victim has her heart removed, her name is MJK, it can also be MARY MATFELON and this church is right here in Whitechapel !!!!!!!........it is Whitechapel !!!!

5 murders yes, because there's no more that's needed, Ivor Edwardes was close but he missed something, now look closely at Eddowes face, i will not tell you what's there, but it's right here on GOOGLE, look for occult symbols, look at Egypt, look at Egyptian Godesses, look at Mummys, look at the symbols on the walls in pyramids......now look at Armageddon, the Harlot, the beast......the final conflict, the Jews in the East.

where is the final conflict and what the hell has it to do with a woman called Mary, who will give birth to another son !!!!

what has this to do with ROBERT THE BRUCE who had his heart removed, i'm not sure about all of this but it's quite tantalising, because as said i'm highly suspicious of the murders stopping after a HEART was removed from someone called Mary, and the killer might have connections to the Army/ horses/groom.

[lynn cates]

replies

Hello Malcolm.

"1..... it's highly unlikely that you'd see two mutilators suddenly killing in this small area of London and at the same time'

And yet there was a mutilator in Durham at the same time. Why are chronology and geography so important? Leibniz and Newton both worked independently on the calculus at roughly the same time.

"2..... why copycat to shift the blame to JTR instead of you?...... the police are bloody useless, they'll never catch you, so there's no point bothering hiding your crime.... nobody else did, it looks like a free for all mini crime wave, two for the price of one !"

But why take chances? I am not talking about an average mind here. I rule out a good many chaps based simply on strength of neuronal synapsing power.

"3.....it's far more likely that JTR might encourage someone else to simply go out and cut throats only, rather than to mutilate"

Why? Why encourage such?

"4.... It takes a real sicko to gut and mutilate someone, it's totally revolting, it would sicken most killers, this type is pretty rare and definitely not two at once in Whitechapel.... no way!"

Well, a true amoralist is required. And why so definite?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

These crimes are nasty, no doubt.

Bundy's nastiness prompted him to inflict pain.
JtR's nastiness prompted him to overkill his victims, destroy their bodies, disfigure them.

[lynn cates]

Once more into the breach dear friends.

Hello (again) Malcolm.

"you're getting far too involved in the nitty gritty"

Well, I agree that the minutiae is most intriguing just now.

"this is causing you to see things that aren't there"

Like what, particularly?

"and if there, are due to varying circumstances, such as time available, the killer's mood, inexperience, different medical opinions at that time etc"

I'm all ears. Unpack it all--but without contradiction and an ad hoc quality.

"try to look much wider'

I used to look so wide that I help both P and Not P--not an encouraging sign.

"because it's highly unlikely that this is more than one person that's mutilating..... and the most likely is that the last 3 are definitely the same killer"

Whence the modal quantification here? "Likely" and its cognates I always view with skepticism.

Cheers.
LC

[Trevor Marriott]

you're getting far too involved in the nitty gritty, this is causing you to see things that aren't there and if there, are due to varying circumstances, such as time available, the killers mood, inexperience, different medical opinions at that time etc

try to look much wider, because it's highly unlikely that this is more than one person that's mutilating..... and the most likely is that the last 3 are definitely the same killer

If you say there was not more than one person mutilating then the facts point to at least two killers as Stride had no mutilations. !

Kelly had no organs removed and taken away so those facts also point to another killer thats three.

If Sadler killed Coles thats four and if the soldier killed Tabram thats five.

You can forget the torso murders they were never murders.

[Malcolm X]

These crimes are nasty, no doubt.

Bundy's nastiness prompted him to inflict pain.
JtR's nastiness prompted him to overkill his victims, destroy their bodies, disfigure them.

yes but this was post mortem, he actually killed them fairly quickly.

no what JTR did is something different, its not really nastiness, it's more mental sickness, imbecilic, occult, deeply disturbing etc, he dissected MJK slowly, plus he toyed with his knife, he did not go crazy like Sutcliffe.

he did not beat her with a hammer and cut off her limbs with an axe etc, or smash her to a bloody pulp with a baseball bat, JTR is a million times different from this.

i'm sorry that i cant explain this any better, because it's something that you sense that cant be put into words, it's like a twisted cold Aztec/occult sacrafice, with an element of HYPNOTIC TRANCE thrown in, especially as he's looking at their faces.... this does something very odd to him.... he plays with their faces !!!!

what bothers me is, this isn't present in the other murders only the last 2, maybe his evil is simply growing, or his belief in something demands this... no idea.

[Tom_Wescott]

While you're quite right that we should not really be challenging qualified opinions from those who were there without serious evidence to back it up, I think we need to be a little careful with Dr. Phillips at the same time. Well respected though he most certainly was (and perhaps still is in the eyes of some), his remarks throughout the case on the murders were evidently not flawless, especially in regards to Chapman's time of death and Eddowes' candidacy as a JTR victim - it isn't, and shouldn't be seen as, gospel on the case.

Apples and oranges, Adam. Estimated times of death are very fluid for any doctor, and has no bearing on the very experienced Dr. Phillips in regards to his ability to tell if a knife killer knew what he was doing or not, as in the case of the Stride murder.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Rubyretro]

[QUOTE]where is the final conflict and what the hell has it to do with a woman called Mary[/QUOTE

Doubtless, there are some men out there that can answer this.

[Malcolm X]

If you say there was not more than one person mutilating then the facts point to at least two killers as Stride had no mutilations. !

Kelly had no organs removed and taken away so those facts also point to another killer thats three.

If Sadler killed Coles thats four and if the soldier killed Tabram thats five.

You can forget the torso murders they were never murders.

no, what happened to MJKs heart then, i dont know how you can say this, because her heart was definitely taken away by the killer

uum how did the torsos become torsos if this wasn't murder, did the bodies just fly apart on their own....flipping heck this is just crazy, but i think that this is you just posting in too quickly !

Tabram? OK you can have that one and Stride was killed because JTR was unable to lure her away from Dutfields

you intreague me, sometimes your posts are great and at other times they're even worst than mine, but this one here is totally off the scale.