Have Ripperologists Been Polled As To Who They Think Jack Really Was?

[robhouse]

If you say there was not more than one person mutilating then the facts point to at least two killers as Stride had no mutilations. !

Kelly had no organs removed and taken away so those facts also point to another killer thats three.

If Sadler killed Coles thats four and if the soldier killed Tabram thats five.

You can forget the torso murders they were never murders.

Is this post intended as a joke, or are you serious? Is this irony? Is this actually indicative of your ability to analyze evidence, or are you having a joke? It is hard to tell.

[Trevor Marriott]

no, what happened to MJKs heart then, i dont know how you can say this, because her heart was definitely taken away by the killer

uum how did the torsos become torsos if this wasn't murder, did the bodies just fly apart on their own....flipping heck this is just crazy, but i think that this is you just posting in too quickly !

Tabram? OK you can have that one and Stride was killed because JTR was unable to lure her away from Dutfields

you intreague me, sometimes your posts are great and at other times they're even worst than mine, but this one here is totally off the scale.

I do not intend to keep posting the same replies or providing the same information please read previous threads on this topic which i have posted then you wil have all the right answers.

[Malcolm X]

[QUOTE=Rubyretro;201007]

where is the final conflict and what the hell has it to do with a woman called Mary[/QUOTE

Doubtless, there are some men out there that can answer this.

mary magdelane, mary matfelon, mary jane kelly, heart removed, final human sacrafice, the Nights Templar, robert the bruce, anti semetism.

it's all right there, but if this is what it's all about i dont know, but it does explain JTRs mutilations all stopping with this final hideous murder, heart removed, and a fire burning in her fire place etc.

[robhouse]

How do you explain the differences in wounds between Nichols and Chapman?

In my opinion, the main difference in the case of Nichols is that she was murdered in a much more exposed location than the three victims who were more extensively mutilated. In the cases of Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly, the murders occurred in a more secluded location where the killer would feel more secure and less likely to be interrupted while mutilating the victims. In the case of Nichols, the murder was committed on the side of a public street that even at that hour had people walking down it going to work etc. So the killer must have felt much less secure, and probably ran off out of fear of discovery.

[Malcolm X]

Is this post intended as a joke, or are you serious? Is this irony? Is this actually indicative of your ability to analyze evidence, or are you having a joke? It is hard to tell.

oh no he's very serious, he's just posted in too quickly and thus messed up what he was trying to say.

i'll have to watch out for this too

[Monty]

You can forget the torso murders they were never murders.

Obvious suicides.

Monty

[Scott Nelson]

...or accidental deaths.

[Jon Guy]

Kelly had no organs removed and taken away so those facts also point to another killer thats three.

Hi Trevor

Most of her organs were removed, and her heart was missing.

[Jon Guy]

Hello Jon G. Were you addressing this to me? Delighted to answer, but hate to jump in if I were not the intended recipient.

Hi Lynn

Go for it. It was an open question.

[lynn cates]

respondeo quod

Hello Jon G. Thanks.

First, let's begin by noting similarities, those items which caused many to link these two slayings together.

1. 2 cuts to the neck.

2. The deeper of the two notching the bone.

3. An attempt to decapitate.

4. Both occurring near a Harrison/Barber horse slaughter yard.

5. Both ladies avowedly bent upon a certain pursuit.

6. Both with untorn dresses, lifted up, for mutilation to occur.

Now, the differences.

1. Annie disemboweled.

2. Annie with uterus removed (I put Trevor's thesis in brackets).

Now, why 1? Simply because my lad, JI, was most likely watching the proceedings at the slaughterers. Each one was at a different stage on the animal/s and so put different ideas into his poor delusional head at different times.

Why 2? JI himself admitted to thinking that he was harvesting heads and entrails of animals. But this AFTER Annie's murder.

BONUS: no charge for this. Why the pilferage on Annie but not Polly? Simple answer. He saw the worthless brass rings and thought them valuable. (Recall his chart from Colney Hatch? He had a paper filled with worthless costume jewelry, studs, etc. He proclaimed them "Worth no end of money.") He wrenched them off and went rifling for more.

Quite simple IF one has a model from which to work.

Cheers.
LC

[GregBaron]

Impressive delusion...

Well spoken Lynn. At least one can connect the dots with your theories.

And don't let anyone ever tell you that you lack imagination.

I have only two comments.

1) I would think the disemboweling would be just the opposite - after finding the wonderful "golden" rings of Annie's, "that's a good days work, now let's be off" might make sense.............but with Nichols he got nothing, so I would expect more damage looking for something worthwhile.............

2) If JI was in the midst of a schizophrenic episode, which I believe is what you are describing, he did a pretty good job of escaping without a trace, in this delusional state, not once but twice - and without leaving so much as a drop of evidence. That would be impressive of someone with all of his or her wits about them let alone a delusional schizophrenic in episode.

Nevertheless, perhaps his moon was in the seventh house and Jupiter had aligned with Mars........................


Greg

[lynn cates]

errata

Hello Greg. Thanks.

"Well spoken Lynn. At least one can connect the dots with your theories."

And that is ALL I seek for the time being.

"And don't let anyone ever tell you that you lack imagination."

Well, as Tom Wescott says, that may be what it takes to make headway here.

"1) I would think the disemboweling would be just the opposite - after finding the wonderful "golden" rings of Annie's, "that's a good days work, now let's be off" might make sense.............but with Nichols he got nothing, so I would expect more damage looking for something worthwhile............."

I think that, with Nichols he was not looking for such. If the "Leather Apron" stories contain even a fundamentum in re--and I think they did--and given that JI was one of 2 or 3 characters who inspired those stories, I think he was shaking down prostitutes for loose pence. How else could he have eaten, little though he consumed?

"2) If JI was in the midst of a schizophrenic episode, which I believe is what you are describing, he did a pretty good job of escaping without a trace, in this delusional state, not once but twice - and without leaving so much as a drop of evidence. That would be impressive of someone with all of his or her wits about them let alone a delusional schizophrenic in episode."

I think there was a good deal of happenstance here. Recall, this lad was all over a good portion of East London and had managed only one entanglement with the coppers--and that in Clerkenwell.

His butcher's actions would have been instinctive at this point.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil Carter]

How fluid?

Apples and oranges, Adam. Estimated times of death are very fluid for any doctor, and has no bearing on the very experienced Dr. Phillips in regards to his ability to tell if a knife killer knew what he was doing or not, as in the case of the Stride murder.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hello Tom,

Fluidity?How fluid is the following?

1) inspector Collard, a policeman, says HE arrived at Mitre Square at 2 or 3 mins past 2. He states that Dr. Sequiera was already there.

2) Dr. Sequiera states he was called upon at 5 mins to 2. He lived locally and it would not have taken more than 3 or 4mins to get to Mitre Square.

3) He (Sequira) stated that the body would not have been dead more than 15 mins.

4) Dr Brown stated that he arrived at 18mins past 2.

5) He (Brown) states that she (Eddowes) must have been dead most likelx withhn the half hour.

I put it to you that these two experienced Doctors would know a fresh death when they saw one.
I also put it to you than fluidity of time of death estimation only increases when death has occured hours previousjy, not 30mins or lesr,

6) 2.00am minus 15mins is 1.45am.(Sequiera)

7) 2.18am minus 30mins is 1.48am (Brown)

8) Brown states the cause of death was immediate ( haemorrage from the left common carotid artery).

9) Brown states that the mutilations were inflicted after death.(after 1.48am)

10) Brown states that all injuries (inckuding No.8, above) wovld take at least 5 mins. (start 1.43am)

if Brown is correct, the attack started at 1.43 and ended at at least 1.48am
if Sequiera is coßect, the attack started at 1,45.
(if the attack therefore took 5mins then it endde at 1.50)

11) PC Watkins stated he arrived at the scene at 1.44am

12) He(Watkins) states he ran across the square and alerted the nightwatchman at Kearly and Tonge.

All of the above times are WRITTEN, SWORN statements and are from the Inquest reports filed at the Corporation of London Records Office, ( ref. Coroners inquest (L) 1888, No,135, Catherine Eddowes inquest)

13) George Morris ( nightwatchman) states that Watkins knocked at his door at a quarter to two (1.45am) .

PC Watkins states he fixed the time by reference to ìs watch after he had called the nightwatcman. (Morris)

Morris refers to his timekeeping previous to Watkins arrival at his door, thereby having his own time reference piece.

(from witness statements quoted in The Times.)

So we have 4 different timepieces(5 including Collard) telling us that according to 2 doctors Watkins and Morris BOTH must be wrong, or BOTH doctors are wrong in their time of death statements.

How fluid do you want it? All 4 timepieces being wrong?
Evidence and facts should tell you that someone(more than one of the 4) is either badly chronologically mistaken or worse, lying. You choose which and who.

All references can be found in The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook, By Evans and Skinner.

Best wishes,

Phil

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor

Most of her organs were removed, and her heart was missing.

I should have made it clearer none of her organs were removed from the crime scene.

[Trevor Marriott]

...or accidental deaths.

Now here was me thinking that no one other than me had a sense of humour on here and then up pop Laurel and Hardy aka Monty and Scott