Robert Louis Stevenson

[TomTomKent]

As I already said "Dr. Jekyll And Mr. Hyde" contains many coincidences with Jack`s story. And these coincidences are not bigger because RLS was forced by his wife to burn his first version of the "Dr. Jekyll And Mr. Hyde". Then he committed the crimes and then it can talk about them in the form of a fictional story, without being censored. Writing a confession - "The Ebb-Tide".

How exactly could you possibly know what was in the burned manuscript? How can you be sure there are more or fewer coincidences in either version?

You can't. This is not a theory or hypothosis. This is speculation and wishful thinking.

[ChrisGeorge]

I believe Psycho was based on Ed Gein TomTomKent but I otherwise accept your position...

I must congratulate jsantos on one thing, I now intend to read the 'Ebb-Tide'
as this is one I'd neglected...

One can read 'The Picture of Dorian Gray' as a confessional of sin enacted in low life places...........this brings Oscar Wilde into the suspect picture.......although I don't recall anyone seeing a rotund dandy prancing about in blue velvet...

Also, like nearly everyone writing in the 19th century, RLS was influenced by Edgar Allan Poe who wrote tale(s) of dual identity.......off the top I think William Wilson may have been one.........anyway, I'd put Poe on the list except that he died in 1849.......this I would expect hurts his candidacy....


Greg

Edgar Allan Poe is a good example of a writer using his reading and experiences to concoct his stories. A sentient writer such as Poe or RLS can create a tale without having actually lived all of the details of the story. "William Wilson" was based on his experiences while he was attending a school in Stoke Newington, London, when he was briefly in Britain with his foster father, Scottish-born John Allan, a Richmond tobacco merchant. "King Pest" is believed to have been partly based on the fact that Poe lived in U.S. East Coast cities such as Baltimore during cholera epidemics of the early 1830's, though he set the story in Europe in medieval times. "The Mystery of Marie Roget" was based on an actual murder case -- the finding of the body of a New Jersey woman in the Hudson, but he transposed the story from the United States to Paris.

Chris

[GregBaron]

RLS a disciple...

Edgar Allan Poe is a good example of a writer using his reading and experiences to concoct his stories. A sentient writer such as Poe or RLS can create a tale without having actually lived all of the details of the story. "William Wilson" was based on his experiences while he was attending a school in Stoke Newington, London, when he was briefly in Britain with his foster father, Scottish-born John Allan, a Richmond tobacco merchant. "King Pest" is believed to have been partly based on the fact that Poe lived in U.S. East Coast cities such as Baltimore during cholera epidemics of the early 1830's, though he set the story in Europe in medieval times. "The Mystery of Marie Roget" was based on an actual murder case -- the finding of the body of a New Jersey woman in the Hudson, but he transposed the story from the United States to Paris

Exactly ChrisGeorge and well said....we could go on of course..."Masque of the Red Death" about experiences with tuberculosis..again with a medieval setting........"The Gold Bug"...army experiences on the Islands off South Carolina..."Descent into the Maelstrom" his experiences at Sea...others he may have completely pulled out of his imaginative head....."The Black Cat" or "A Cask of Amontillado" for example...........I'd expect the murders in Poe's tales would far outnumber those of RLS's and I believe the worst of accusations against Poe were a few drunken brawls............it's a shame Poe wasn't alive during the Autumn of Terror as I imagine the inventor of detective fiction would have loved to take on the case..........


Greg

[ChrisGeorge]

Thanks, Greg. Poe wasn't around to take on the case, but Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was .... and actually, when you think about, Conan Doyle he might make a better candidate for Jack (maybe) than RLS or Walter Sickert or Lewis Carroll, who each seem to have both been elsewhere at the time. Trained physician, experienced in writing about mysteries and thinking about murder... need I go on?

Chris

[TomTomKent]

The other possibility, though in no way a probability, is that Jekyl and Hide was a Catcher in the Rye of its day. Any coincidence between it and the murders do not require the author tobethe killer. One of the thousands who read the book could have been inspired.

Of course these coincidences are the product of confirmation bias, which could be applied to any readily available text of the time. For other examples look at how the bible, or lyrics of the beatles, etc, are all supposed to have predicted some act or other. See also anything credited to Nostrodamus.

[ChrisGeorge]

For other examples look at how the bible, or lyrics of the beatles, etc, are all supposed to have predicted some act or other. See also anything credited to Nostrodamus.

The Manson Gang and the words "Pig" scrawled in blood at the Sharon Tate murder scene, supposedly inspired by the Beatles song "Piggies" on the White Album comes to mind. Mastermind Charles Manson is said to have been a number of the tracks on the album, including "Revolution No. 9," "Happiness Is A Warm Gun," and "Helter Skelter."

Chris

[TomTomKent]

As well as other Beatles influences. He genuinely believed (or so he claims) that songs like blackbird were encoded messages inciting the Helter skelter Racial War. Oh and that he had predicted the song "sexy sadie" by letting a girl called sadie join his family.

None of that "coincidence" means Lennon and Macartney were suspects of the chainof murders however.

[jsantos]

RLS believed that every human being has a good side and a bad side.
And that the good side can live regardless of what the bad side do.
My question to you, ripperologists and people interested in Jack the Ripper case is: Can Jack have been a person with this personality problem?

[TomTomKent]

RLS believed that every human being has a good side and a bad side.
And that the good side can live regardless of what the bad side do.
My question to you, ripperologists and people interested in Jack the Ripper case is: Can Jack have been a person with this personality problem?

Possibly, but that is not enough to base your suspicions on. As has been discussed the personality problem need not be the authors. Your claims that these indicate RLS are actually, at best, an indication the criminal may have read Jekyll and Hide, but is more likely to be pure coincidence.

[jsantos]

I don`t think Jack was a lunatic, a poor or only a marginal. If jack was one of these and had killed five or six women, sooner or later would be caught.
I think it is more than proven that he's smart, probably a person with education and money. And evident personality disorders, but not a lunatic. A person who has the perfect idea of good and evil, but can live with both sides.

[jsantos]

The Macnaghten Memorandum marked the history of Jack the Ripper, but because most ripperologists believe that Jack committed six murders (including Martha Tabram) and not five, it`s time to correct the number of Jack victims.

[TomTomKent]

I don`t think Jack was a lunatic, a poor or only a marginal. If jack was one of these and had killed five or six women, sooner or later would be caught.
I think it is more than proven that he's smart, probably a person with education and money. And evident personality disorders, but not a lunatic. A person who has the perfect idea of good and evil, but can live with both sides.

You seem to be mistaking "being caught" for "being identified." Furthermore this is a nonsequitor argument: Being smart and educated are seperate issues, and only one of them is plausibly connected to your wealth. But does an education help you be a successful Ripper? What about a classical education pertains to the murders or avoiding capture? Surely these are skills more commonly associated with the working or criminal classes?

This argument can be entirely inverted: If Jack were not poor and working class why would thaat make him LESS likely to be recognised and persued by the police or the vigilance comittees than an upper class member of the elite who was obviously "not from round these parts".

Then we have to ask what evidence there is that suggests "Jack" was in any way educated? Do not witter on about the letters, graffito, or anything on the "margins", you are talking about Jack, and the only crimes we can say for sure were by his hands were the murders. If you are going to claim something is more than proven, then supply proof. Otherwise it is not "proven" but your subjective opinion.

[TomTomKent]

The Macnaghten Memorandum marked the history of Jack the Ripper, but because most ripperologists believe that Jack committed six murders (including Martha Tabram) and not five, it`s time to correct the number of Jack victims.

Again, at the risk of being picky, but do you have any kind of study that shows "Most" Ripperologists believe this? In my experience the Canonical 5 are the most common "known" victims, but some have more or fewer in that catagory, with much debate over which if any other "suspected" victim is plausible, unlikely, worth considering, and so forth.

[ChrisGeorge]

I don`t think Jack was a lunatic, a poor or only a marginal. If jack was one of these and had killed five or six women, sooner or later would be caught.
I think it is more than proven that he's smart, probably a person with education and money. And evident personality disorders, but not a lunatic. A person who has the perfect idea of good and evil, but can live with both sides.

Hi jsantos

It sounds as if you are pointing to someone very much like Robert Louis Stevenson, doesn't it? But that's only because you have made up your mind that RLS was the killer so of course the Ripper has to be someone just like him. The plain fact though is that we don't know who the Ripper was, whether he was a poor, ill-educated man or a rich, well-educated man, or something in between. But he must have had at least some sort of "street smarts" to have got away time and time again without being detected. So far, you have failed to come up with any persuasive argument why we should take RLS seriously as a candidate to have been Jack the Ripper.

Best regards

Chris George

[jsantos]

Tom always writes to seem that everything I write does not make sense.
Any poll on this site proves that most people believe in a sixth victim. And her name is Martha Tabram. C`mon...