Kosminski..why the big secret ?

[Mascara & Paranoia]

It comes from Dr Houchin's certificate:

In the matter of Aaron Kozminski of 16 Greenfield St Mile End E in the county of London Hair Dresser an alleged lunatic.
I, the undersigned Edmund King Houchin do hereby certify as follows ...
2. On the 6th day of February 1891 at the Mile End Old Town Workhouse in the county of London I personally examined the said Aaron Kozminski and came to the conclusion that he is a person of unsound mind and a proper person to be taken charge of and detained under care and treatment.
3. I formed this conclusion on the following grounds, viz.:-
(a) Facts indicating insanity observed by myself at the time of examination, viz.:-
He declares that he is guided & his movements altogether controlled by an instinct that informs his mind; he says that he knows the movements of all mankind; he refuses food from others because he is told to do so and eats out of the gutter for the same reason.
(b) Facts communicated by others, viz.:-
Jacob Cohen 51 Carter Lane St Pauls, City of London says that he goes about the streets and picks up bits of bread out of the gutter & eats them, he drinks water from the tap & he refuses food at the hands of others. He took up a knife & threatened the life of his sister. He says that he is ill and his cure consists in refusing food. He is melancholic, practises self-abuse. He is very dirty and will not be washed. He has not attempted any kind of work for years.
4. The said Aaron Kozminski appeared to me to be in a fit condition of bodily health to be removed to an asylum, hospital or licensed house ...
Signed E. K. Houchin.
of 23 High St Stepney.
Dated, Feb 6th 1891.
[LMA StBG/ME/107/8, no 1558]

Oh, sweet. Cheers mate. xD

So it seems as though it came from Aaron's very own mouth. I'm can live with that.

[Phil Carter]

David,

Nope, his scissors slipped and he took out a kidney.

best wishes

Phil

[DVV]

Hi Mike,

I guess he stopped working after he cut some ears and sent them to Anderson.

Amitiés,
David

ps: Ireland / Italy...how boring it was...

[The Good Michael]

It still interests me that he was listed as a hairdresser in 1891, but hadn't worked for years and was dirty. (Thanks for the posting, Chris)

This means to me that he was a hairdresser at one time, and that would have been sometime before 1889 if I go by 'years'.

Someone who was identified as a hairdresser could not have been so unkempt and seemingly insane while plying his trade, else no trade would he have. This means, undoubtedly, that there was a time of reasonable enough coherence that Kosminski had a job. I do get rather sick of the inanity of people claiming he was a full-blown nutjob in 1888 when that clearly is unknown, but surely must lean towards him having had a hairdresser's job around that time.

Cheers,

Mike

[Chris]

That and I still wanna know where the eating-from-the-gutter-because-the-voices-told-him-so rumour[?] originated from and whether or not it could be confirmed by more than one person (specifically by the locals who knew of him in the area or, better still, those who actually knew him).

It comes from Dr Houchin's certificate:

In the matter of Aaron Kozminski of 16 Greenfield St Mile End E in the county of London Hair Dresser an alleged lunatic.
I, the undersigned Edmund King Houchin do hereby certify as follows ...
2. On the 6th day of February 1891 at the Mile End Old Town Workhouse in the county of London I personally examined the said Aaron Kozminski and came to the conclusion that he is a person of unsound mind and a proper person to be taken charge of and detained under care and treatment.
3. I formed this conclusion on the following grounds, viz.:-
(a) Facts indicating insanity observed by myself at the time of examination, viz.:-
He declares that he is guided & his movements altogether controlled by an instinct that informs his mind; he says that he knows the movements of all mankind; he refuses food from others because he is told to do so and eats out of the gutter for the same reason.
(b) Facts communicated by others, viz.:-
Jacob Cohen 51 Carter Lane St Pauls, City of London says that he goes about the streets and picks up bits of bread out of the gutter & eats them, he drinks water from the tap & he refuses food at the hands of others. He took up a knife & threatened the life of his sister. He says that he is ill and his cure consists in refusing food. He is melancholic, practises self-abuse. He is very dirty and will not be washed. He has not attempted any kind of work for years.
4. The said Aaron Kozminski appeared to me to be in a fit condition of bodily health to be removed to an asylum, hospital or licensed house ...
Signed E. K. Houchin.
of 23 High St Stepney.
Dated, Feb 6th 1891.
[LMA StBG/ME/107/8, no 1558]

[Jeff Leahy]

You know Aaron clearly was often dirty and unkempt,it runs through the records on him.The medical records ,brief though they are,are consistent in presenting him as someone who will not work,who prefers not to wash or bathe and is indifferent about how he looks.While its true the records do not mention his masturbation,except as the reason his family give for him going "insane" .His shameless behaviour clearly troubled his family and is certainly more evidence that far from being a "paranoid schizophrenic" ,Aaron,if he suffered from any form of schizophrenia, was much more likely to have suffered from "simple schizophrenia" a form of the illness frequently found in harmless tramps and vagrants.Well Aaron Kosminski was a harmless chap,from all doctors accounts at Colney Hatch and Leavesdon and definitely quite vagrant in his habits-----he didnt want to work ,was often unclean and untidy,and had a rather shameless obsession with masturbation.No paranoid schizophrenic would be caught dead carrying on like that! Seriously!
If you ask me Aaron Kosminski wouldnt have had the slightest inclination to stir himself sufficiently to have been running round Whitechapel with his knife,rapidly disembowelling "unfortunates" and always with the strategic exits,pre-planned cleaning up of his person and carefully thought through escape routes that must have been involved.He would have preferred ,I am sure ,to have walked someone"s dog for a couple of bob and otherwise sat around doing nothing all day.Jack the Ripper was an operator.Aaron Kosminski wasnt.

There is no record of his condition or schizophrenia in 1888.

He could have been quite a hansom toff for all anybody knows?

Pirate

[Natalie Severn]

You know Aaron clearly was often dirty and unkempt,it runs through the records on him.The medical records ,brief though they are,are consistent in presenting him as someone who will not work,who prefers not to wash or bathe and is indifferent about how he looks.While its true the records do not mention his masturbation,except as the reason his family give for him going "insane" ,his shameless indulgence in such behaviour seems likely and it clearly troubled his family .Moreover,it is certainly more evidence, that far from being a "paranoid schizophrenic" ,Aaron,if he suffered from any form of schizophrenia, was much more likely to have suffered from "simple schizophrenia" a form of the illness frequently found in harmless tramps and vagrants----or as his doctors put it,from 1894 onwards,from dementia.
Aaron Kosminski was a harmless chap,from all doctors accounts at Colney Hatch and Leavesdon and he was definitely quite vagrant in his habits-----he didnt want to work ,was often unclean and untidy,and was rather shameless .Very few,if any, paranoid schizophrenics would be caught carrying on like Aaron apparently did! Seriously!
If you ask me Aaron Kosminski wouldnt have had the slightest "inclination" to stir himself from his bed sufficiently to have been running round Whitechapel with his knife,rapidly disembowelling "unfortunates" and always with the planned strategic exits,planned cleaning up of his person and carefully thought through escape routes that must have been involved.He would have preferred ,I am sure ,to have walked someone"s dog for a couple of bob and otherwise sat around doing nothing all day.Jack the Ripper was an operator.Aaron Kosminski was not.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Phil!

Since I personally think, that JtR was an every-day-looking and behaving man outside, I don't think, that Kosminski could have been The Ripper!

All the best Jukka

Well this is where we must disagree slightly. I think it quite possible that Aaron was very much the sort of 'non entity' every day that you describe. Schizophrenics especially in the early stages of their illness can be quite plausable, petty high functioning and intelligent.

Pirate

[Phil Carter]

Hello DVV,

Agreed. And as long as Kosminski cannot be incriminated on more than a "moral" statement by Anderson, we stand as far as we do with Druitt, imho.

best wishes

Phil

*edit* what are the chances that the signed "Seaside Home" Guest book suddenly appears from some loft or cellar? It's such an obvious "find" isn't it?
Sorry, I am being cynical now. Its age, Im told.

[DVV]

Anderson only claimed 'Moral' proof...he never had enough to go to court.

Pirate

I'm afraid he never had enough to convince any of his colleagues...

Amitiés,
David

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Phil!

Since I personally think, that JtR was an every-day-looking and behaving man outside, I don't think, that Kosminski could have been The Ripper!

All the best
Jukka

[DVV]

Because there would be no evidence unless he confessed to all five, or six, or was confirmed by more witnesses. Correct?

best wishes

Phil

Hi Phil,

for most of us Eddowes murderer was the one we call Jack the Ripper.

Amitiés,
David

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Rob, Jeff,

Thank you both for the replies.

Yes, it was what I meant. Because if Kosminski was identified for ONE killing only. (PRESUMING this was the witness to Eddowes killing that was Anderson's witness), calling him Jack the Ripper is entirely a different kettle of fish. It can only be speculation. And to say that because Anderson/Macnaughten said "he" killed five, six etc, is not a viable and acceptable truth. That is Anderson/Macnaughten speculating is it not?
Therefore Kosminski was NOT the Ripper. He may, on that evidence have been a killer of ONE woman. But he wasn't Jack the Ripper. Because there would be no evidence unless he confessed to all five, or six, or was confirmed by more witnesses. Correct?

best wishes Phil

Its all speculation, I dont think anyone will ever prove Kosminski was the Ripper. One can speculate it and even say one believes that he was, but at the end of the day Anderson only claimed 'Moral' proof...he never had enough to go to court.

But the facts should be counter balanced against those who believe the identity of the killer will never be known or some 'looney tune' theory.

Pirate

[Phil Carter]

Hello Rob, Jeff,

Thank you both for the replies.

Yes, it was what I meant. Because if Kosminski was identified for ONE killing only. (PRESUMING this was the witness to Eddowes killing that was Anderson's witness), calling him Jack the Ripper is entirely a different kettle of fish. It can only be speculation. And to say that because Anderson/Macnaughten said "he" killed five, six etc, is not a viable and acceptable truth. That is Anderson/Macnaughten speculating is it not?
Therefore Kosminski was NOT the Ripper. He may, on that evidence have been a killer of ONE woman. But he wasn't Jack the Ripper. Because there would be no evidence unless he confessed to all five, or six, or was confirmed by more witnesses. Correct?

best wishes

Phil

[Jeff Leahy]

Possible, but not probable. Eating out of the gutter and planning premeditated (he brought a knife out with him) murder and mutilation are two completely different things. I don't know how many paranoid schizophrenics have quite done that. If anything, their murders would be more random and less elusive. Whoever Jack the Ripper was knew exactly what he was doing and seemed to have had a clear mind and all his wits about him during the execution of his crimes. Entrap, subdue, slice, remove, escape. I would've thought someone of Aaron's supposed caliber would have stayed with the body longer than the estimated five-to-ten minutes that the Ripper did with his street murders (though the actual killer probably took even less time than that to have done what he did), either experimenting with the innards or just being curious by them.

That and I still wanna know where the eating-from-the-gutter-because-the-voices-told-him-so rumour[?] originated from and whether or not it could be confirmed by more than one person (specifically by the locals who knew of him in the area or, better still, those who actually knew him).

Btw, this isn't me ranting at you personally, PJ, just that the opportunity to put these thoughts out there presented themselves better when replying to you, and I kinda went off on a tangent.

Know thats perfectly OK I understand..

Rob may correct me but I think the eating from the gutter and knowing the ways of all man kind comes from his comital notes.

And this would seem to indicate Pararnoid Schizophrenia, although I understand that paranioia at some level is part and parcel of the illness generally.

Theres a Hollywood film starring Russel Crow as a schizophrenic, OK its Hollywood but it does try and deal with some of the complications faced with when looking at the illness (Beautiful Mind)

Not that I'm suggesting that Aaron was a mad professor type but I dont necessarily see that one psychotic episode will be the same as the next, also one would expect each attack to become more savere.

Pirate