Kosminski..why the big secret ?

[The Good Michael]

However, in the realm of gambling, from my experience in newspaper trawling, Jews are represented equally if not in larger numbers than their population at large. Several gambling house raids mention quite a few local Jews.

We can probably include the coercion of young Jewish immigrants into prostitution here as well.

Cheers,

Mike

[Chris]

I wish I could find Major Heny Smith's quote concerning Jews. It was along the lines of them being innocent of committing any crime in the East End.

That sounds a bit too sweeping, though the Jewish community in the East End generally seems to have been considered more law-abiding than the Gentile - its besetting vice being gambling*.

The relevant chapter of Smith's memoirs can be found here:

http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/rps.constable.html

[* Edit: As I see Howard Brown has just posted.]

[Howard Brown]

I wish I could find Major Heny Smith's quote concerning Jews. It was along the lines of them being innocent of committing any crime in the East End.

Can anyone provide the quote?
Jason C

Jason:

This is what you were asking for:

"Sir Robert talks of the "Lighter Side" of his Official Life." There is nothing "light" here ; a heavier indictment could not be framed against a class whose conduct contrasts most favourably with that of the Gentile population of the Metropolis.--Chapter 16, "From Constable To Commissioner,"

Jason, in terms of hooliganism, street prostitution, assaults...Jews are disproportionately underrepresented considering their numbers in the immediate vicinity.
However, in the realm of gambling, from my experience in newspaper trawling, Jews are represented equally if not in larger numbers than their population at large. Several gambling house raids mention quite a few local Jews.

Hope this helps. Some other comments may be found here:

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=96216#post96216

[robhouse]

Its just another remarkable fact that one would always "pop up" whenever Sir Robert or his apprentice heard mention of Jack the Ripper

What are you talking about here? I assume nothing... that you are just joking

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Jeff,



Are you telling me that you've discovered another definitely ascertained Polish Jew?

Regards,

Simon

Its just another remarkable fact that one would always "pop up" whenever Sir Robert or his apprentice heard mention of Jack the Ripper

[robhouse]

But here we have another conundrum.
The Chief Commissioner of the City of London Police was Henry Smith,who along with Inspectors Abberline , Reid and Dew totally rejected any claim by anyone at all that the Ripper"s identity or address was ever known,to the police ,either at the time[1888] or twenty years later.So how could City Detective Henry Cox have been referring to Kosminski,when his boss Smith ridicules the mere notion that Kosminki or rather a" Polish Jew" was the Ripper?

Like so much else nothing tallies or makes good sense about Anderson"s suspect.

Natalie,
as I am sure you are aware, Swanson said that Kozminski was kept under surveillance by City CID. Now certainly, Smith must have been aware of this. Still, I do not see why this implies that Smith must have shared Cox's opinion that the man they were watching had something to do with the crimes. Nor do I think that the MET necessarily would have shared all their information with Smith.

Rob

[jason_c]

I wish I could find Major Heny Smith's quote concerning Jews. It was along the lines of them being innocent of committing any crime in the East End.

Can anyone provide the quote?

[spyglass]

It's no wonder then that certain conspiracy theorys take hold, It has always seemed to me that all senior police officers all the way up to the top were throwing out red herrings and contradictions as if instructed to.
This would make a lot of sense when reading these pages along side another thread entitled "WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT "

[Toofew]

We'll see where this one ends up.

Originally Posted by spyglass

If Mcnaghten and Anderson really did know the identity of JTR ( Kosminski )
wouldnt it be safe to assume then that the likes of Abberline and other senior investigating officers would have been made aware of this?
Also, wouldnt it have been in the police's intrest to let the people and press know that they had at last caught their man concidering all the criticism they had been under, why keep it secret ?

As a neophyte who has been away for several years working on another interest's Project From Hell, I grabbed Sugden's 2002 revision of The Complete History of JtR off the shelf to begin relearning the case. On p. 378-379 he quoted from the draft version of MM's report in which MM stated "Personally, after much careful & deliberate consideration, I am incined to exonerate the last 2, but I have always held strong opinions regarding no. 1" The suspects were Druitt, Kosminski & Ostrog in that order.

Billy

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jeff,

I think you should also be careful drawing the conclusion that those of us who believe Anderson's story to be true. And also the ID scenario. Necessarily conclude that Aaron was JtR. Thats another jump entirely.

Are you telling me that you've discovered another definitely ascertained Polish Jew?

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

But here we have another conundrum.
The Chief Commissioner of the City of London Police was Henry Smith,who along with Inspectors Abberline , Reid and Dew totally rejected any claim by anyone at all that the Ripper"s identity or address was ever known,to the police ,either at the time[1888] or twenty years later.So how could City Detective Henry Cox have been referring to Kosminski,when his boss Smith ridicules the mere notion that Kosminki or rather a" Polish Jew" was the Ripper?

Like so much else nothing tallies or makes good sense about Anderson"s suspect.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff,

Do you think he knew at the time that he was writing the case notes of Jack the Ripper?

Regards, Simon

I dont know the answer to this but can speculate some personal opinion.

I think there was disagreement amounng the Kosminski family how best to habdle teh situation. Some believing some not.

Wolf decided to get Aaron out of harms way as quickly as possible.

I think there was a hint of background trouble but not direct police involvement.

Pirate

PS I think you should also be careful drawing the conclusion that those of us who believe Anderson's story
to be true. And also the ID scenario. Necessarily conclude that Aaron was JtR. Thats another jump entirely.

[robhouse]

"How could the police NOT have had any involvement in the admission of Jack the Ripper to Colney Hatch Asylum? It beggars belief."

Simon,

I think the real question you should ask is , "How COULD the police have had any involvement in the admission of Kozminski?" The had absolutely NO LEGAL AUTHORITY to convict him, so I don't see how you think they would have had any legal basis to do anything with him at all. If the Police were involved, again, I think it must have been is a somewhat unofficial capacity. Given the extraordinary nature of the Ripper crimes, I do not think that this is an unreasonable suggestion.

Please don't get preachy with me and tell me what to write and not to write. Let's keep this civil if possible. I think I "owe" about as much to Kozminski as you do to Anderson... which means giving my fair and honest assessment of him as a historical figure.

Rob

[Chris]

I don't believe a word of it.

I should have prefaced my question with "If the Kosminski story was true . . . .

Well, I suppose it depends what you mean by "the Kosminski story", but the obvious possibility is that Aaron's family took him to the workhouse and he was then committed to Colney Hatch in the usual way.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Chris,

I don't believe a word of it.

I should have prefaced my question with "If the Kosminski story was true . . . .

Regards,

Simon