We have him...

[Debra A]

Michael,

I hear what you're saying, but keep in mind that first and foremost, I've been investigating Le Grand as a suspect in the Stride murder, because he's all over Berner Street like white on rice. But a serious suspect in any one of the canonical five murders must also be looked at in accordinance with the other murders. I'd clearly be a fool not to think of that. So far, I've found nothing to exclude him as the Ripper, though I'm not convinced he WAS the Ripper. However, these findings from Mike C and MWR at least show that Scotland Yard seriously investigated him and were unable to exclude him as the Ripper also. I've been pursuing him for a long time without even knowing that he had been investigated as the Ripper. To find out that he had been, particularly with all the crap I've had to hear from certain parties (not you), has given me a rather fuzzy feeling of vindication.

Jerry D,

Awesome to hear from you and thanks for the kind words! Tom & Jerry in da house!

Curious,

Let me get back to you on that.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,
I certainly feel this is an important and exciting new development in LeGrand's story, that there was any slight whiff of suspicion on Scotland yard's part at all is definite vindication for you!

Due to an article written after leGrand's last trial we had a suspicion a couple of years ago that LeGrand was being shadowed in Autumn 88 due to his some activities concerning certain vigilance work, remember? Perhaps the suspicions started then?

Someone has asked if it is known where LeGrand was in 1892, as far as I know there is nothing to say he was in portland in 92, we only know he ended up in parkhurst by 1901, but he could have been transferred at some point.

There is a huge LeGrand thread on JTR forums with research contributions from Tom, myself, Robert Linford and AP for anyone interested....all based on the excellent first research of LeGrand from Gerry Nixon.

[Debra A]

translation?




Le Grand in 1891, described as 'en mouchard' ....a police informant or grass.

Can anyone translate this other section:

Nihil tere non tetigi

[Mike Covell]

Are you sure it's not Latin Debs?

I get en mouchard to mean behold mouchard in Latin and Nihil tere non tetigi to translate as Nothing to bore through not to touch

[chrisjd]

"Nihil tere non tetigi"

Latin, sure.
Hm, looks like "Don't use anything I haven't touched"

Meaning???

I hope someone comes up with a better shot.

Christian

Edit: "tere", Imperativ of "Terere", to use, to waste

[Mike Covell]

Hi Chrisjd, wouldn't "Tetigi" have a "T" on the end if it meant Touched?
For example, "Tetigit"

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Debs,

Yes, I remember the articles about Le Grand being shadowed and suspected it might have something to do with the Ripper murders, and was frustrated we didn't have more info on it. As I mentioned earlier, one of the detectives following him had caught word that Le Grand was saying he had murdered a woman, but the detective figured it was probably just boasting on Le Grand's part to put fear into people. I definitely believe Le Grand first became suspected for the Ripper murders around the time of his trial for the 'dash your brains in' letters.
Regarding this 'en mouchard' business, where did you get this?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Debra A]

Thanks Mike and Christian,
Mike, I'm pretty sure 'en mouchard' is French and translates as something to do with 'in with the police.' But the second phrase does seem to be latin.

On that note, Christian, could it be something like don't waste yourself/time touching anything I haven't been involved in? or maybe don't waste yourself on anything i'm involved in. Perhaps in the context of warning people off getting involved in the same type of criminal activities as him?

[Debra A]

Hi Debs,

Yes, I remember the articles about Le Grand being shadowed and suspected it might have something to do with the Ripper murders, and was frustrated we didn't have more info on it. As I mentioned earlier, one of the detectives following him had caught word that Le Grand was saying he had murdered a woman, but the detective figured it was probably just boasting on Le Grand's part to put fear into people. I definitely believe Le Grand first became suspected for the Ripper murders around the time of his trial for the 'dash your brains in' letters.
Regarding this 'en mouchard' business, where did you get this?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

'En mouchard' is from the article we are talking about Tom.
Just one thing though, there was talk of boasting of 'a murder' in his past, I can't see a woman mentioned,... but I know you are working from memory here. Luckily I did manage to salvage most of the old stuff when my other computer packed in.

[Mike Covell]

Mouchard= Grass, Informer, Sneak.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Debs,

I have all the Le Grand articles you've ever sent me, but they're on an EX girlfriend's computer! Thankfully, I'm not the bastard I'm often assumed to be, and she still likes me, so I'll be getting all of that back on a disc soon. I'm buying an old laptop for $45 today so I can start to work writing right away. It won't have internet though. But as soon as I can, I'd be happy to resend you all the Le Grand stuff I have.

To get back in the swing of writing, I'm planning a two-part essay for Ripperologist (assuming they want to publish it). The first part, which I've been planning for some time, is called 'Exonerating Michael Kidney', which will be an indepth study of the evidence for why Kidney should not be considered a viable suspect in Stride's murder. Also in part one will be a rogues gallery of other men of suspicion. Part two will be a brief overview of Le Grand, correcting the errors in Gerry Dixon's groundbreaking piece (which also appeared in Rip and is in their book 'The Best of Ripperologist'), and presenting some of the new and exciting stuff we have. I'd like you to be involved in these essays to whatever extent you're comfortable with.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Archaic]

re: Mouchard

Hi, everyone.

I came across a slightly different translation of "mouchard": "an undercover police investigator or police spy".

It's similar to the other meanings, but seems to indicate a person working in a slightly more 'official' capacity for the police as opposed to a common stool-pigeon type of informant.

Mouchard is also a region in eastern France, and the phrase "en Mouchard" would simply mean "in Mouchard", but in that case the M would be capitalized.

Interesting stuff; good work everybody.

Best regards, Archaic

[Howard Brown]

Tommy:

Check this thread out in case there's something in it you need.

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=2557&highlight=grand

The last post has a few links to Deb's stories.

Good luck with the Kidney story. It'll be preachin' to the choir with me, but hopefully it will sink in with some other folks.

[Tom_Wescott]

Thanks, Howard. My original motive for writing it is simply so I don' have to be repeating myself on the boards regarding Kidney, or giving the evidence piecemeal. It can be in one nice little neat package for people to read and then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Ha ha. At this point, I'm just avoiding most of the Stride threads because the inmates have taken over the asylum and they're gonna believe what they want, I guess. Thanks for that link.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Le Grand and the police

Regarding Le Grand working for the police, he did some work on the Parnell debacle, I believe. Other than that, he was certainly on the other side of the law. Unless, of course, it refers to his having worked for the Vigilance Committe, which did in fact inform the police.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[The Grave Maurice]

Yeah, "en mouchard" would translate as "informer" or "grass". Sorry, I can't help you with the Latin. I did study Latin in high school, but that was a long time ago....back when it was still a living language.