Robert Mann - A 'New' Suspect

[Supe]

Trev,

True enough about house-to-house searches in general, but I was specifically referring to the the searches proposed by the Home Office and modified by Warren that were, in Anderson's word,s intended to investigate "every man in the district whose circumstances were such that he could go and come and get rid of his blood-stains in secret." I cited it simply to underscore Pimpernel's preposterous claim that at the time of the murders no one thought to suspect a local.

Don.

[Monty]

Eventually we will have covered all bases.

I'll get my coat.

Monty

[Tom_Wescott]

Septic,

Please tell me that was sarcasm.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I fail to see how Robert Mann is a suspect ...

Let it go, Stewart! Just let it go!

Take that perception of 'Jack the Ripper' having been the top-hat wearing / Gladstone toting / caped 'Toff', that we have all had for so many years, and just let it go!

Mr. Trow has introduced us all to the possibility that 'Jack the Ripper' might have actually been a local man, of little stature; and for that, we should all be thankful.

[Trevor Marriott]

Just to put the record straight house to house enquiries were as important then as they are today. They are carried out in an attempt to gather evidence and information and to look for witnesses.

Unless it is known a suspect has entered premises within a specific area house to house enquiries are not carried out to look for an offender

In the case of the killer they would have known who they were looking for in any event

[Supe]

Pimpernel,

The thought of the murderer being a local, never ever entered the minds of the people then,

Good heavens, why do you suppose the Met enaged into a house-to-house search over a good part of Whitechapel after the Stride/Eddowes murders if they didn't have a strong suspicion the muderer was a local? Do you suppose it was actually a ruse to sell tickets to the Policeman's Ball?

As Stewart said, from where some people get their ideas is quite a mystery, but for all too many it clearly is not the result of studying the case.

Don.

[Stewart P Evans]

Fail To See

...
Something tells me Mr. Trow is trying his best to find a more credible suspect, based on an earlier FBI observation by experienced geographical profilers when they mentioned that the likely suspect could be someone like a butcher or maybe a mortuary assistant and it from there that Mr. Trow was paying attention when he remembered in the back of his head that somewhere he remembered reading that there was indeed, a mortuary assistant who had been named and who had been called in to give evidence in one of the cases and the more and more Mr. Trow proved on this possible suspect, the more and more interesting coincidences he found, like the fact that all the murdered women ended up in his slab; in the patch of territory where the killing field took place.
It is all too easy, to assume that the killer is not in our mist, it easier to say, it was the Jews who did it, or the Swedes, or an errant sailor, or an itinerant American actor, or a doctor who would not have lived and known the area too well, or better still... Royalty. Nope. The thought of the murderer being a local, never ever entered the minds of the people then, like it doesn't enter the minds of the people now, this is why no one then, nor now cared to look at this other grey and insignificant person, a mere mortuary assistant in the eyes of those who have studied this case for so long. Their ideas are already fixed and are inmutable like the universal laws that cannot be changed. It is only the bold who dare to part from the established thoughts and put forward new ideas that others didn't care to even look at. I think more respect should be shown to this new suspect.

I fail to see how Robert Mann is a suspect - there is not a jot of evidence, nor a contemporary allegation, to suggest such a thing. The FBI profile is worthless. Local butchers, and many other locals, were looked at in 1888 as suspects. I don't know where you get the idea that they weren't. We are all aware of the mortuary attendants who gave inquest evidence. All the victims did not end up on 'his slab.' Modern theorists have consdidered local suspects. I really don't know where some people get their ideas from.

[Trevor Marriott]

You can draw up an equal argument to suggest the killer lived in the area or came to the area to seek out his victims.

Again as i have continually said it is for each person to assess and evaluate the various hypotheses that many people have suggested over the years and are stilldoing today.

For what its worth I dont subscribe to the belief he was a local man, and that not because i have my own suspect who did not reside in the area

Its down to geographical profiling of my own. Guess that make me a geographical profiler ?

The only difference bewteen me and these so called geographical profiling experts is that they know how to operate and use the complicated software. I use an old fashioned tried and tested method called "common sense"

[scarletpimpernel]

Jem R.

Something tells me Mr. Trow is trying his best to find a more credible suspect, based on an earlier FBI observation by experienced geographical profilers when they mentioned that the likely suspect could be someone like a butcher or maybe a mortuary assistant and it from there that Mr. Trow was paying attention when he remembered in the back of his head that somewhere he remembered reading that there was indeed, a mortuary assistant who had been named and who had been called in to give evidence in one of the cases and the more and more Mr. Trow proved on this possible suspect, the more and more interesting coincidences he found, like the fact that all the murdered women ended up in his slab; in the patch of territory where the killing field took place.

It is all too easy, to assume that the killer is not in our mist, it easier to say, it was the Jews who did it, or the Swedes, or an errant sailor, or an itinerant American actor, or a doctor who would not have lived and known the area too well, or better still... Royalty. Nope. The thought of the murderer being a local, never ever entered the minds of the people then, like it doesn't enter the minds of the people now, this is why no one then, nor now cared to look at this other grey and insignificant person, a mere mortuary assistant in the eyes of those who have studied this case for so long. Their ideas are already fixed and are inmutable like the universal laws that cannot be changed. It is only the bold who dare to part from the established thoughts and put forward new ideas that others didn't care to even look at. I think more respect should be shown to this new suspect.

[Jem.R.Salmon]

The suggestion that Mann was the ripper was based totally without Factual evidence, and at best is wild, wild conjecture.

To suggest he did it based on working in a mortuary,stipping the body against the wishes of the police,living in the area, his father dying when he was seven and having basic anatomical knowledge is almost so laughable its untrue.

Where is the factual evidence??? If Trow went to court with this today he would be laughed out. And dont even get me started on finding the dead body of Tabram and deciding to mutilate it there and then.......

Something tells me he is trying to sell a book!!

[dixon9]

If Whitchapel had a real mortuary i doubt very much wether Robert Mann would have been employed there,judging by Wynne Baxter's comments at Polly's inquiry
"Had there been a public mortuary there would also have been a keeper,whose experience would have shown the advisability of the body being attended to only in the presence of the medical witness."(The ultimate JTR sourcebook page 50)

Do some people realy think Robert Mann could have picked up the skills which many believe Jack had?

[lynn cates]

Trow Mann away

Hello Bob. I appreciate your observation regarding the OTHER mortuary attendant. I, too, have wondered why Trow does not suspect him.

Permit me to speculate. It is possible that Trow is focused on Mann because of the mental problem/s associated with Mann. Nothing in this regard has (so far as I know) been associated with the other chap.

Ultimately, however, I think one must agree with your assessment and Trow away Mann's candidacy.

Cheers.
LC

[Bob Hinton]

Robert Mann does not work on a number of levels. For a start if you look at the case presented by Trow it falls down as soon as you ask the question ‘Why do you not suspect the other mortuary attendant who worked alongside Mann?’
All the reasons you give for Mann equally fits the other chap.
In Trows other Ripper book which was published in 1997 I don’t believe he even considers Mann to be a suspect. Why not? All the information he now presents to support his theory was available then.
Now if you look at Mann himself, the first thing that crops up is that he is simply too old. The person who made those mutilations was suffering from some form of advanced mental problem. This would have manifested itself long before a person reaches the age of 50. This is one reason why most of the sadistic, mutilating type of killer seems to fit the age range 25-35.
Trying to add McKenzie to the tally is simply nonsense. It is obvious that the person who killed her wanted it to appear like a ripper killing, but couldn’t actually go through with the mutilations. The reason for this given by Trow, illness, simply doesn’t compute. If Mann was too weak to slice someone in 1889, how come he lasted another six or seven years?
He also reverses himself in the case of the Kelly murder. Trow states that his aim was to murder someone in a place where he could spend a lot of time on the mutilations. Why then after Kelly does he revert to killing on the street where such opportunity is severely curtailed?
It just doesn’t make sense.

I think it has to be said that - in the absence of any suggestion as to how he could have got out of the workhouse at night - he actually has an alibi for all the murders. I'm really not sure there's much point in discussing the other problems until that one has been dealt with.

"... it has to be said ..."

Indeed it does!

[lynn cates]

motive and opportunity

Hello Chris. Quite right. I was merely dealing with an issue in isolation. It had been asked what the motive could be.

He lacked opportunity; perhaps, at least, he had motive.

Cheers.
LC