Robert Mann - A 'New' Suspect

[scarletpimpernel]

Jem. Salmon

Well, I doubt very much that the whole book was presented in the programme. Often, authors send teasers out, to more or less show what's in their book. Meir Trow has presented his suspect and one of the excellent points he has raised was the accessibility between the two places for the killer to hide without raising suspicions, even if people saw Mann with blood on his hands, since that was his job at the morgue. The hiding places seem to me the ideal place for not raising any suspicions at all. it would have been right under the police's noses, in plain sight as it were, and yet not be caught and that was exactly the case.

[scarletpimpernel]

Absolutley.

Unfortunately, the documentary made it sound like I came up with the idea of superimposing maps to find it, which is obviously not the case.

However, with all due respect to Mei, he didn't know the exact location of the mortuary until I told him. And that was whenl we were filming the sequence itself.

John,

The way I remember it was that Mei showed surprise and delight when you showed him the map and was that you ? who led him to the location where the mortuary would have been ? It seemed clear to me, that Meir didn't know this, until you showed him the location on the map, in fact, I think Meir even said so in the programme. If memory serves me right. Which I thought it was interesting, because it added more to his theory.

[Jem.R.Salmon]

Jem R Salmon,

Well it was the psychologist, professor Lawrence Allison from the university of Liverpool who suggested the Tabram incident and the other psychological trends from his own experience about sexual killers. Meir Trow asked the professor in a scale of 1 to 10 how much credence would he give to this particular suspect. The professor answer was: Eight. of what he knows so far, about this case. So I find it very good that Meir Trow sought several experts in their field, to explore this new suspect and as I said before.. this new suspect is as good as any other suspect and better than most.

I have heard people here write: I do not believe in this author's suspect because he is only trying to sell a book. Jem... tell me how many JTR authors have written a book for free ? so comments from these people are rather strange. Every author wants to sell their books, that's natural, and good luck to them if they do. I found that I could not get a copy of Meir Trow's book because it has sold out. So I will have to wait until they print some more.

Two points:

1) It was Not the professor Lawrence Allison who suggested the tabram incident it was Trow. Trow then asked him, after expalining Mann's background how likely this incident (The after death mutilation) was to occur if Mann was to stumble on the body. This reply was, as you correctly state 8 out of ten.

I.E. the proffessor was commenting on Mann mutilating the corpse, not on stumbling upon Tabram.

2) I have read lots of good books on JTR as well as some pretty poor ones. While i understanding any author is hoping to sell books, inveriably the better ones tend to back up the essence of their theories on some level of factual evidence. All i am saying is that Trow does not seem to be able to back up some major points within his theory.

If Trow is out to sell a book then good luck to him. I have no particular axe to grind and do realise the fact that he has brought forward a new name to the table - I am just not convinced how credible.

[Stewart P Evans]

Star

Absolutley.
Unfortunately, the documentary made it sound like I came up with the idea of superimposing maps to find it, which is obviously not the case.
However, with all due respect to Mei, he didn't know the exact location of the mortuary until I told him. And that was whenl we were filming the sequence itself.

John Bennett - a star in the making...

[Stewart P Evans]

Nothing

Nothing new of factual nature and relevant to the case was produced and nothing to suggest that Mann was, or should be, a suspect was produced. Ergo, there is nothing to suggest that we should look upon Mann as a suspect.

[Doppelganger]

Greetings all I don`t these new suspects have we not already debated Walter Sickert, Aaron Kosminski, Montague Druitt to death as theories go Robert Mann is just as likely or unlikely as anyone else.

[Roy Corduroy]

About that location-



From the appendix to Hints on Sanitary Law: by George Chambers 1884

[John Bennett]

Mortuary

Its location has been known for quite some time!

Absolutley.

Unfortunately, the documentary made it sound like I came up with the idea of superimposing maps to find it, which is obviously not the case.

However, with all due respect to Mei, he didn't know the exact location of the mortuary until I told him. And that was whenl we were filming the sequence itself.

[tji]

Pimperenel,

By the looks of it, you have not watched the programme either. It is all too easy to shoot down a new suspect if you haven't even seen the programme and it seems to me, that it is you who is getting all confused with the different ill informed comments like TJ's


Perhaps you should come down from the high horse you are on there and take a breath.

I don't see how my comments are ill informed - (or Supe's for that matter)maybe I wasn't as concise as I should have been but that is about it.

Yes I watched the show - (as I stated first time round!) however I don't believe for one minute that clay pipe Alice was a jtr vic, so forgot to add her into my summation.

simple as that.

tj

[Supe]

Pimperenel,

By the looks of it, you have not watched the programme either. It is all too easy to shoot down a new suspect if you haven't even seen the programme and it seems to me, that it is you who is getting all confused with the different ill informed comments like TJ's.

Did you even read my posts on this thread? I said nothing at all about the candidacy of Robert Mann. I simply followed up on Stewart's post that you were quite wrong in saying that locals were not suspected by the police in 1888 or by theorists today. That was arrant nonsense on your part.

Don.

[Bob Hinton]

Jem R Salmon,

Well it was the psychologist, professor Lawrence Allison from the university of Liverpool who suggested the Tabram incident and the other psychological trends from his own experience about sexual killers. Meir Trow asked the professor in a scale of 1 to 10 how much credence would he give to this particular suspect. The professor answer was: Eight. of what he knows so far, about this case. So I find it very good that Meir Trow sought several experts in their field, to explore this new suspect and as I said before.. this new suspect is as good as any other suspect and better than most.

more.

The problem is that these people may be experts in their field, but they have no expertise in the Ripper case. For example it’s no point whatsoever Professor Allison suggesting the Tabram incident might have taken place if he was unaware that Tabram was not found in the street as the program suggests but actually inside a building.

As for the coroners ‘expertise’ it was largely worthless. He was asked was it possible that a mortuary knife could have caused these injuries and he answered yes, but a far more important question would have been ‘What kind of knife could have caused these injuries’ and the list would run into volumes.

As for the FBI profile this is completely worthless. If you listen to Ressler talk about the Ripper killings it is obvious he has the basic facts about the case completely wrong.

... this new suspect is as good as any other suspect and better than most.

Other 'suspects' are of no relevance whatsoever!

But, if a comparison must be made; perhaps we should consider the circumstances surrounding the whereabouts of Michael Ostrog, during the autumn of 1888, and the degree of access that he accordingly had, to each of the victims of the so-called 'Whitechapel Murders'.

Robert Mann was apparently a life-long ward of the Whitechapel Poor Law Union; and was in all likelihood, confined to the Whitechapel Union Infirmary, during the autumn of 1888.

Until this issue is sufficiently addressed by someone having at least a rudimentary understanding of the English Poor Law and some of its major facets (e.g. the Poor Law Amendment Act 1834), Mann cannot possibly be considered a person of interest, let alone a 'suspect'.

Robert Mann is an outright non-starter!

[Chris]

this new suspect is as good as any other suspect and better than most.

But of course, the problem is that Mann was a workhouse inmate, and workhouse inmates were not free to wander the streets in the early hours of the morning.

Unless you can provide a convincing way around that difficulty, so far from Mann being a "good suspect", he's not a viable suspect at all, because he has an alibi.

[scarletpimpernel]

I do welcome new information on the case, including new suspects. The ripper case is dynamic and new theories should be brought forward.

However, i do have to stress, while i am very receptive to new ideas based on historical and factual evidence (and i do understand that a certain amount of supposition will always prevail around ripper suspects) the basic credence of a suspect cannot be made up by marginalised guesswork.

Trow, has in my opinion, brought forward a ''person of interest'' at this moment in time. I am not dismissing Mann as a suspect (I would be foolish to do so!) however i do struggle with some of the points that Trow raised concerning this suspect and the matter of fact way he delivered these. The tabram incident, the motive, the fact Trow claimed Mann was a sexual sadist based on him stripping the body of Nicholls in the morgue, the fact he named seven victims.(I mean why stop at Mackenzie? If you are going to include her why not francis coles in 1891 also?)

These and some other points raised are why i tread carefully when it comes to this ripper suspect. All to often authors do not look at the facts from an objective viewpoint and make the facts fit their tale.This, unfortunately, was very previlent in Trows programme.

On saying all this, I do recognise he has brought forward a new name (not easy to do in this day and age) and should get some recognition for that.

One or two other good points were raised in the programme, most noticeably the supposition that Eddowes was picked up in or around Whitechapel road and led the killer herself to Mitre square and the finding of the old mortuary once used by Mann.

Jem R Salmon,

Well it was the psychologist, professor Lawrence Allison from the university of Liverpool who suggested the Tabram incident and the other psychological trends from his own experience about sexual killers. Meir Trow asked the professor in a scale of 1 to 10 how much credence would he give to this particular suspect. The professor answer was: Eight. of what he knows so far, about this case. So I find it very good that Meir Trow sought several experts in their field, to explore this new suspect and as I said before.. this new suspect is as good as any other suspect and better than most.

I have heard people here write: I do not believe in this author's suspect because he is only trying to sell a book. Jem... tell me how many JTR authors have written a book for free ? so comments from these people are rather strange. Every author wants to sell their books, that's natural, and good luck to them if they do. I found that I could not get a copy of Meir Trow's book because it has sold out. So I will have to wait until they print some more.

[lynn cates]

solution in suspesion

Hello PV. Well, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I would be delighted to see the case solved and taken out of its currently suspended state.

Then we can move on to solve other mysteries like St. Francis dam and its final 24 hours.

The best.
LC