Fleming in 1872

[Observer]

Two more. The date stone is a close up of the building with scaffolding





all the best

Observer

[Stephen Thomas]

Lord knows there must have been a lot of sewing going on back in them days ...

Spoken like a true Cockney, Fisherman.

[Observer]

Hi Chris, here are two views of Schlater street today

Regarding Fleming's accomplice and co defendant, Thomas Cox, the most likely candidate in the 1871 census is:
81 Sclater Street, Bethnal Green
Head: Amelia Cox (Widow) aged 45 born Bethnal Green - Seamstress
Children:
Henry aged 17 - Sailor
Thomas aged 15 - Wood carver
Frederick aged 13 - Chairmaker's assistant
Edward aged 7
George aged 5
Robert aged 1

all the best

Observer

[DVV]

Yes Ben,
and as we know the location of Polly's murder has always been a bit "strange".
And Begg tends to dismiss Wilson as an early ripper's attack because of its location, too.
Now I wonder: can we trace Fleming in prison, then in his "reformatory"?
Were Cox and Fleming still friends in 1888?

Amitiés,
David

[Ben]

Thanks, David.

Another geographical point of interest: Thanks to Chris' research we learn that Fleming's co-defendant lived in Sclater Street, a very short walk due North of the Hanbury Street crime scene and just off Brick Lane.

Cheers,
Ben

[DVV]

Agreed, chaps.

It would also add an interesting slant to my personal suspcion that Kelly's killer may have staked out the area - "loitered" - before gaining entry.

Cheers,
Ben

You can, Ben,
that smells Flemtchinson too much (I can smell it standing on the port of Toulon, believe me!).

Amitiés,
David

ps: podcast listened, it was nice to hear your voice(s)

[DVV]

If we could only find out the offences he had made himself guilty of prior to 1872!

Indeed, Fish!
and what about the sentence: 5 years ina "reformatory". Something also can come out from this.

Amitiés,
David

[Ben]

Agreed, chaps.

It would also add an interesting slant to my personal suspcion that Kelly's killer may have staked out the area - "loitered" - before gaining entry.

Cheers,
Ben

[DVV]

Hi Claire and Fish,
exciting stuff, indeed.
I couldn't sleep yesterday.
I will not, tonight.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

His mother's maiden name was Mason - but that's surely a coincidence.

Salut mon cher Crochet,
I've seen her name given as "Masom", and "Mason". Which one is a typo...?

Amitiés,
David

[claire]

Thanks for that, Hook...I didn't know for certain about the iron chisel: I just recalled using a little tool one time I had to do a patch up job in our bathroom and made a right hash of it (snots sounds about right!). It would have doubled nicely as a breaking and entering tool.

DVV: I agree with you. This helps in drawing an arc between a juvenile offender and his later potential offending (eek, does that sound too much like profiling? I don't mean it to.).

Exciting stuff.

[Fisherman]

Good observations there, David! You did, I suppose, notice the fact that Fleming was mentioned first in the article, despite being younger and having the alphabetical disadvantage?
Myself, I have taken a particular liking to the fact that Fleming (IF it was our Fleming) was a burglar. It tallies ridiculously well with my upcoming article in Ripperologist...
If we could only find out the offences he had made himself guilty of prior to 1872!

The best!
Fisherman

[DVV]

Hi all,
this 1872's affair is important for 2 reasons:
1- the location (near to where Ada Wilson has been assaulted in 1888, by a young white man sporting a wideawake hat...)
2- Fleming's displayed more cunning than his elder accomplice
In short, it adds weight to Fleming's (Hutchinson, Evans) candidacy - it's far from a mere biographical information.

Amitiés,
David

[Fisherman]

Head: Amelia Cox (Widow) aged 45 born Bethnal Green - Seamstress

So, another seamstress. Lord knows there must have been a lot of sewing going on back in them days ...

The best!
Fisherman

[Chris Scott]

Regarding Fleming's accomplice and co defendant, Thomas Cox, the most likely candidate in the 1871 census is:
81 Sclater Street, Bethnal Green
Head: Amelia Cox (Widow) aged 45 born Bethnal Green - Seamstress
Children:
Henry aged 17 - Sailor
Thomas aged 15 - Wood carver
Frederick aged 13 - Chairmaker's assistant
Edward aged 7
George aged 5
Robert aged 1