Domestic or lunatic?

[Ben]

Hi David,

If you have the contents of "Alias Fleming and Hutch" to hand, could you remind us of his date of birth and date of entry to Claybury Asylum? I think I've located the most likely repository for the individual patient records of that hospital, and would probably need to cite both when I contact them.

Many thanks in advance!

Oh, and personally I still prefer "Flemchinson", but of the various "George Hutchinson"s out there, I'd agree with Gareth that George Thomas Hutchinson of Cottage Grove is the closest fit among them.

Ben

[DVV]

Merci beaucoup Sam.
Hélas, je commence à ne voir que Flemchinson dans ma ligne de mire et j'ai envie de presser la détente.
Besoin d'une douche et de quelques pastis bien frais...

Amitiés,
David

[Sam Flynn]

Hello David,

I can't recall anyone pinpointing "the" George Hutchinson definitively since. I guess we're left with a choice of those already identified, foremost among which (personal opinion) would still be the watch-stealer from Cottage Grove and dear old "Toppy".

[DVV]

Hi David,
Oh indeed, this is as good a place as any to explore that angle, and as you know, I believe a plausible argument can be advanced for identifying Fleming with Hutchinson. It's just a pity that the original extensive discussion, "Alias Fleming and Hutch", was lost in the relatively recent "crash".

Hi Ben and all,
I re-read this morning the thread "Alias Fleming and Hutch", and also "Hutchinson: conviction for stealing?".
Of particular interest was the researches of Hutch in the census by Sam Flynn (post 30 / 02-24-2006). It reveals several "George Hutchinson", but none of them seems to be "our" Hutch.
I may have missed something, however...
Has our Hutch been traced in between time? Or still is he as elusive as in 2006?

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

Hi Observer,
I agree: just like you, I've never thought that McKenzie was a Ripper victim.
But in the hypothesis of "Fleming the Ripper", it's only fair and logical to see her murder as a posible "delibitated Ripper work".

Amitiés,
David

[Fisherman]

Hi Observer!

There is even less in the Stride case, mind you...!

The best!
Fisherman

[Observer]

Hi David

Hi Observer,
I personally believe Mary to be a Ripper victim. My sentence about "copy-cat work" refered to the McKenzie's murder.
On the contrary, with Fleming becoming insane (or progressively showing signs of insanity), and being at large after the Miller's Court affair, there is a (slight) possibility that the murders did not have an abrupt end (ie: McKenzie being, as an example, the work of a debilitated Ripper).
But I may have misunderstood your post, and if so, I apologize in advance.

Amitiés,
David

No it is I who misinterpreted you, so accept my apology. I thought you were reffering to Mary Kelly as a copycat murder. I also believe Mary Kelly was a Ripper victim, not so sure about McKenzie though, there's little in the way of the injuries inflicted on McKenzie to suggest she was a Ripper victim.

all the best

Observer

[DVV]

May be so, Ben,
but it was dark...
I still think that Flemchinson would have had more reasons to be wary than Hutchinson.

Amitiés,
David

[Ben]

Yes Ben, but I don't think Sarah Lewis had seen the man's face.

She would if he was across the street from the entrance to Miller's Court, David (which, I believe, is where she had him in her police statement). She may have been describing just a figure, but Hutchinson didn't know that.

Regards,
Ben

[DVV]

Yes Ben, but I don't think Sarah Lewis had seen the man's face. She said "he was looking up the court", so she may have seen his back, and in any event, she's more describing a figure (not tall, a hat, waiting for something).

Amitiés,
David

[Ben]

Hi David,

Another possiblity, however, is that Hutch injected himself just to satisfy this kind of twisted desire displayed, as we nowadays know, by some serial killers.

Very true, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Hutchinson being wary about Lewis' evidence. We know what the totality of Lewis' evidence amounted to, but Hutchinson didn't. For all he knew, the police could have suppressed her full description as they did with Lawende's. At the inquest, Lawende mentioned only a "rough and shabby" appearance, but by the 19th November, the full description was published (neckerchief, cap, height, age and all) and circulated. Whoever the killer was, he must have alarmed him to know that his physical particulars were suddenly and unexpectedly doing the rounds weeks after he committed the murder* Same could have happened with Lewis' evidence.

The other thing to bear in mind is that a "description" is different from a "sighting". For example, a witness can remember a man's face without necessarily being able to describe it very well, whilst forgetting about clothes altogether.

Best regards,
Ben

*It could even account, in part, for the October lull. Who knows?

[DVV]

Hi Ben,
on balance, I believe he had better stay away from from the inquiry. Lewis, half dozing in front of Miller's Court, merely saw a man with a hat, rather short and stout... Clearly not enough to scare Hutch, even if he was rather short and stout.
Another possiblity, however, is that Hutch injected himself just to satisfy this kind of twisted desire displayed, as we nowadays know, by some serial killers.

Amitiés,
David

[Ben]

Hi David,

As I said, I'd like to go further, but I may be wrong, and the question of "Flemchinson" has perhaps to be debated elsewhere. Just tell me.

Oh indeed, this is as good a place as any to explore that angle, and as you know, I believe a plausible argument can be advanced for identifying Fleming with Hutchinson. It's just a pity that the original extensive discussion, "Alias Fleming and Hutch", was lost in the relatively recent "crash". As far as Hutchinson's possible motivations for coming forward, it needn't necessarily have been fear of imminent capture that spurred him into action. Quite possibly, he wanted to "spike their guns in advance" - to appropriate a phrase coined by murderer Nathan Leopold - thus ensuring him with a degree of real or imagined security if and when his name or description cropped up in a "suspect" capacity as somebody seen near the crime scene or someone who knew one of the victims (or whatever). "It obviously wasn't me. I contacted you. I was helpful", rather like serial killer John Eric Armstrong's "I called you guys, remember?" when he came forward with a claim to have "discovered" a body.

All the best,
Ben

[DVV]

Hi Observer,
I personally believe Mary to be a Ripper victim. My sentence about "copy-cat work" refered to the McKenzie's murder.
On the contrary, with Fleming becoming insane (or progressively showing signs of insanity), and being at large after the Miller's Court affair, there is a (slight) possibility that the murders did not have an abrupt end (ie: McKenzie being, as an example, the work of a debilitated Ripper).
But I may have misunderstood your post, and if so, I apologize in advance.

Amitiés,
David

[Observer]

Hi David

Hi Sam,
I like the "My job is done at last" scenario. However, since Fleming was still alive and at large after Mary's murder, his candidacy may force us not to forget the murders after MJK, especially the case of McKenzie.
Certainly, it can be a copy-cat work, but the idea of a debilitated Ripper (by his mental condition and /or the fact that Mary was a part of his motive) is then not to be discarded.

Amitiés,
David

Presuming that Kelly was not a victim of Jack the Ripper, and was indeed a copycat, why did the other killer on the loose at that time, the killer of Nichols Eddowes and Chapman, and possibly Stride suddenly stop after Eddowes? Did he also adopt the "my work is done" after Eddowes? In short the abrupt ending of the crimes is a problem poses quite a problem.

all the best

Observer