What makes Druitt a viable suspect?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock

Never seen any argument for escalation after Chapman .
IF there was a 'lust' killer operating then surely , he enjoyed himself so much in the back yard of 29 ,he would choose broad daylight again ?
Striking at 1 and 1.40 in darkness he could never hope to match his previous high could he ?

Hello PS

Eddowes and Kelly were surely an escalation? It was pure chance that he picked up a victim with her own room as the alternative would have the ripper wandering the streets until he found a victim with a room. It might have been a long night for him.

The fact that he struck in darkness in Mitre Square doesn’t alter anything. He wasn’t performing a life saving operation after all.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The whole case is boiling over with incomparable incidence .

When have we known two serial killers operating on the same days in London.
When have we had a serial killer remove a kidney in darkness at the roadside .
Looking for comparables won't give us answers

Neither will looking for unnecessary complications. This was a serial killer who got away with it probably by luck as much as anything else. We can’t know what was going on in his mind. We can’t know his thought processes. We can’t tie very much down by timings. One or two minutes hear and there could make a massive difference to outcomes. There’s nothing about these crimes that hint at conspiracy but I bet that if you looked into any case of serial murder deeply enough you could put together some kind of case for a conspiracy.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Of course, the removal of an additional organ suggests Eddowes was an escalation from Chapman, although he would have been operating in poor lightning conditions and under severe time pressure, which would have strictly limited his activities, i.e. any further escalation.

We cannot of course assume that the killer "chose" to murder Eddowes at that time, particularly as he seemed like a fairly disorganized perpetrator: He may not have planned to kill that night at all, but Eddowes, being simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, triggered some primitive urge that he couldn't resist.

True John. And something might have spooked him in the backyard of Hanbury Street which caused him to stop what he was doing. Maybe he stopped what he was doing in Buck’s Row because he heard Lechmere approaching? Actually we talk about the ripper possibly being disturbed after killing Stride but it’s not unreasonable to suggest that he was disturbed at each crime in some way. Buck’s Row by Lechmere - Hanbury Street by some noise or voice - Berner Street by Diemschutz - Mitre Square by Harvey’s approach.

[packers stem]

Neither will looking for unnecessary complications. This was a serial killer who got away with it probably by luck as much as anything else. We can’t know what was going on in his mind. We can’t know his thought processes. We can’t tie very much down by timings. One or two minutes hear and there could make a massive difference to outcomes. There’s nothing about these crimes that hint at conspiracy but I bet that if you looked into any case of serial murder deeply enough you could put together some kind of case for a conspiracy.

Well ..... no
Not unless you find another one running side by side , kidney removal, no lighting .
For me , there's nothing about these crimes that indicate anything remotely similar to any known serial killer .
There is shed loads pointing towards things being covered up ..... it's only a short step from there to conspiracy .
They are of course different things

[packers stem]

Hello PS

Eddowes and Kelly were surely an escalation? It was pure chance that he picked up a victim with her own room as the alternative would have the ripper wandering the streets until he found a victim with a room. It might have been a long night for him.

The fact that he struck in darkness in Mitre Square doesn’t alter anything. He wasn’t performing a life saving operation after all.

I didn't mention the charade that was Miller's Court .
Whole different ball game
I was only suggesting that had a killer wanted to escalate he would again have chosen daylight ...... if , of course , you suspect Chapman was killed in daylight

[Herlock Sholmes]

. I didn't mention the charade that was Miller's Court . Whole different ball game

No charade there. Just a murder of a woman in a room.

I was only suggesting that had a killer wanted to escalate he would again have chosen daylight ...... if , of course , you suspect Chapman was killed in daylight

Why do you need loads of light to butcher a corpse? Anyway Richardson said 'It was not quite light at the time, but there was enough light to see all over the place.’ Unless you’re saying that Phillips had such extraordinary powers (contra to medical knowledge at the time), that his TOD estimate was set in stone accurate then Chapman was killed when there was reasonable light.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Well ..... no
Not unless you find another one running side by side , kidney removal, no lighting .
For me , there's nothing about these crimes that indicate anything remotely similar to any known serial killer .
There is shed loads pointing towards things being covered up ..... it's only a short step from there to conspiracy .
They are of course different things

This is just a serial killer case. It’s just that it has more unknowns due to it being 130 years ago. Perfect breeding ground for a conspiracy.

[c.d.]

True John. And something might have spooked him in the backyard of Hanbury Street which caused him to stop what he was doing. Maybe he stopped what he was doing in Buck’s Row because he heard Lechmere approaching? Actually we talk about the ripper possibly being disturbed after killing Stride but it’s not unreasonable to suggest that he was disturbed at each crime in some way. Buck’s Row by Lechmere - Hanbury Street by some noise or voice - Berner Street by Diemschutz - Mitre Square by Harvey’s approach.

And let's not forget plain old fashioned paranoia. It doesn't really need a specific cause.


c.d.

[Roy Corduroy]

Yes you could call it NoJak. The thread nobody is going to start to discuss the proposition There Was No Jack the Ripper.

Okay, since nobody else will, I'll start a thread titled NoJak. And it will include a poll for you to vote should you be so inclined.

Look for it in General Discussion here on Casebook. Under construction right now.

Roy

[Roy Corduroy]

I find the idea of "no jack" relevant to any suspect thread tbh. No railroading, just a interesting sideline to the main track (thread).

Great!

Simon you have a convert who agrees totally that every suspect thread should be sidetracked by interjecting Nojak. What you've been doing for years is catching on. It's all brand new and exciting to Martyn. Itsn't that special.

Roy

[packers stem]

No charade there. Just a murder of a woman in a room.



Why do you need loads of light to butcher a corpse? Anyway Richardson said 'It was not quite light at the time, but there was enough light to see all over the place.’ Unless you’re saying that Phillips had such extraordinary powers (contra to medical knowledge at the time), that his TOD estimate was set in stone accurate then Chapman was killed when there was reasonable light.

I'm guessing you're not suspecting Richardson? and that as there was no corpse around then the usual course is that it would have got lighter after Richardson left .....

it's not about what I think , but about what you think regarding the light there
I believe Phillips TOD to be probably close , I also believe Richardson didn't fall over Chapman

You do to cut out organs , not bright sunlight , but adequate light

We will disagree on Miller's Court

[Roy Corduroy]

Hi Roy,

On being dragged from the Thames, how was Druitt identified?

Hey Simon,

No I'll do what you do and answer with a question.

Why are you quizzing me?

I simply point out you're doing the same old thing, interjecting NoJak into yet another Suspect thread, and you want to slap me down by quizzing me. That's not gonna work.

Good news is the NoJak thread is up and running. For you and yours. And everybody.

Roy

[packers stem]

This is just a serial killer case. It’s just that it has more unknowns due to it being 130 years ago. Perfect breeding ground for a conspiracy.

More chance of Saddam's WMD turning up and Tony Blair being made pope than this being a serial killer case .
it's not the unknown that's the issue , it's what we do know that should never have happened

[mpriestnall]

Great!

Simon you have a convert who agrees totally that every suspect thread should be sidetracked by interjecting Nojak. What you've been doing for years is catching on. It's all brand new and exciting to Martyn. Itsn't that special.

Roy

Just to show you that I'm a true heretical heretic, I've been researching my own "suspect" since 2016.

You've got all figured out Roy!

Though you have deliberately misrepresented what I said, presumably for your own amusement, if for no one elses.

Martyn

[Roy Corduroy]

Good evening Martyn and by the way, welcome to the Casebook discussion group.

"I find the idea of "no jack" relevant to any suspect thread" is what you said. How in the world did I misrepresent you by saying "a convert [referring to you] who agrees totally that every suspect thread should be sidetracked by interjecting Nojak." That is exactly what you said. NoJak is relevant to any suspect thread.

Is it because I used the phrase "every suspect thread" and you said "any suspect thread?" Is that it?

In any case, this here thread is well and truly potted. You can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber.

Roy