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What makes Druitt a viable suspect?

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  • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

    Stuck out?, like the well-dressed man outside the Britannia pub on Nov. 9th?, like the well-dressed man with Stride at the Bricklayers arms?, like the well-dressed man again with Stride in Berner St.seen by PC Smith?
    Hold on wasn't that the same well dressed toff with a top hat, and a black bag with a death wish who tried to lure Lewis and friend into a back alley. Lo and behold she see him again outside the Britannia Public House shortly before Kelly met her end. Yeah right. In short I don't believe that portion of Lewis's testimony.

    Well dressed men with Stride, well it depends what you call well dressed, certainly no Astrakhan man. However I wasn't referring to Druitts preferred style of dress while he was marauding the East End during the terror, more his accent and demeanor.


    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
    I think you'll find the coroner was asking how he was dressed - "did he look like a working man?" - Long replied, "he looked like a foreigner".
    That being how he was dressed. The most common well-dressed people to frequent Whitechapel were Jews.
    Come now, Long implied the man looked as though he were foreign.

    Comment


    • Come now, Long implied the man looked as though he were foreign.
      Are we certain that this man was the ripper?
      Regards

      Herlock




      “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
      “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
      “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
      “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
      “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

        Ok so you’re nitpicking on my choice of the word ‘many’ now. I suppose that you have a set of statistics to hand? Some, a few, several, many, three! The fact that there was a name for it ‘’slumming’’ tends to assume that it was more than a few. The fact remains that some (is ‘some’ ok?) visited the East End for ‘fun.’ Druitt ‘might’ have done the same. Note that I said ‘might’ not that he did or that he definitely did just that he might have. It’s a possibility.

        And you think that they’d have given it a miss during the ripper scare? In case the ripper decided to branch out from bedraggled prostitutes to upper class men?
        Do you have the statistics regarding upper class men visiting the East End for prostitution? Put it this way if they did, and you seem to know all the details, I doubt whether they strayed very far from the main thoroughfares. With accents like they had I don't think they would have lasted long should they have ventured into the interior so to speak. In fact I believe they'd have more sense than to venture into the interior. Thus I very much doubt Druitt had any knowledge of the courts, and alleys of the East End.

        Comment


        • However I wasn't referring to Druitts preferred style of dress while he was marauding the East End during the terror, more his accent and demeanor
          His victims weren’t exactly going to spill the beans on his accent and demeanor. An accent can be disguised or toned down and he’d hardly wish to draw attention to himself by his demeanor unless he went into full Bertie Wooster mode
          Regards

          Herlock




          “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
          “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
          “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
          “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
          “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Observer View Post

            Do you have the statistics regarding upper class men visiting the East End for prostitution? Put it this way if they did, and you seem to know all the details, I doubt whether they strayed very far from the main thoroughfares. With accents like they had I don't think they would have lasted long should they have ventured into the interior so to speak. In fact I believe they'd have more sense than to venture into the interior. Thus I very much doubt Druitt had any knowledge of the courts, and alleys of the East End.
            No I don’t. But it’s well documented that the phenomena existed. Again you are saying things like “’I doubt that...”’ or ‘“I don’t think..’” as if these are facts. I, on the other hand, haven’t stated anything as a fact. I’ve just said that it’s a possibility. That’s all. So you can’t know where someone of Druitt’s class might or might not have ventured any more than I can. Anyway he wouldn’t have needed knowledge of all the courts and alleys because we can’t know that he used any. We can’t even be certain that his evading capture didn’t involve a goodly portion of good fortune?
            Regards

            Herlock




            “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
            “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
            “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
            “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
            “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

              Christ this is like pulling teeth!

              Yes, you only mentioned Mackenzie. In an earlier post though Stacker included Tabram, Mackenzie, the c5 and the Torso’s. And so my point was, again, that we cannot be anything like certain that these women were killed by the ripper.

              Do I categorically dismiss Mackenzie as a ripper victim - no I don’t.

              And so your statement that I’m trying to gain unfair advantage by excluding Mackenzie is obvious nonsense. If she was a victim then Druitt is innocent. If she wasn’t a victim then Druitt might have been the ripper. We cannot be certain of either so we cannot use Mackenzie purely to exonerate Druitt. This is simply a fact of logic. To deny it is to be less than honest.
              Then why promote Druitt as the best candidate out there? He's not, not by a long chalk, and that's disregarding Mackezie as a Ripper victim.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                There's no indication Druitt's suicide even came to their attention, it was only in the local press.
                From what we read it wasn't until after mid 1889, according to Mac., when theories began to surface. By then too much time had passed.
                We don't know that Wick, as has been pointed out there are a lot of reports lost to posterity.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                  Are we certain that this man was the ripper?
                  What do you think?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                    No I don’t. But it’s well documented that the phenomena existed. Again you are saying things like “’I doubt that...”’ or ‘“I don’t think..’” as if these are facts. I, on the other hand, haven’t stated anything as a fact. I’ve just said that it’s a possibility. That’s all. So you can’t know where someone of Druitt’s class might or might not have ventured any more than I can. Anyway he wouldn’t have needed knowledge of all the courts and alleys because we can’t know that he used any. We can’t even be certain that his evading capture didn’t involve a goodly portion of good fortune?
                    The killer, after he murdered Eddowes cut a very fast get away into the East End, he knew exactly where he was going. He was well acquainted with the area. He lived there. High ranking police officers at the time realised this, and I'll take their view over yours any day day.

                    You know it's becoming patently clear as you will agree that we're never going to agree upon anything regarding Druitt so it's time to call it a day

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Observer View Post

                      Then why promote Druitt as the best candidate out there? He's not, not by a long chalk, and that's disregarding Mackezie as a Ripper victim.
                      Apart from Kosminski and possibly Bury I don’t think than any of the suspects are convincing and I’m not massively pro either of them. I read Jon Hainsworth’s book and felt that he made a good case. David Anderson’s book is also excellent. I don’t assume that Macnaghten was a liar or an idiot. I feel that he named Druitt for a reason. And that reason was that he’d had information from Druitt’s family indicating that they felt that he was the ripper. I’m not saying it’s certain or proven but I feel that there could well be something there. The link to the Druitt family exists after all. I also don’t think that Macnaghten would have lightly accused a member of Druitt’s class when he could, with ease, have chosen any number of men locked in asylums or recentry dead. Especially considering that one of Mac’s best friends was related to the Druitt family by marriage.
                      Regards

                      Herlock




                      “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                      “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                      “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                      “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                      “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Observer View Post

                        What do you think?
                        We cannot be sure either way.
                        Regards

                        Herlock




                        “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                        “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                        “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                        “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                        “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Observer View Post

                          The killer, after he murdered Eddowes cut a very fast get away into the East End, he knew exactly where he was going. He was well acquainted with the area. He lived there. High ranking police officers at the time realised this, and I'll take their view over yours any day day.

                          You know it's becoming patently clear as you will agree that we're never going to agree upon anything regarding Druitt so it's time to call it a day
                          I disagree that it’s certain that he had any great knowledge of the area.

                          Its quite revealing that you hold the opinions of ‘high ranking police officers’ in such esteem. Conveniently enough though except for the second highest ranking police officer in the country.

                          I agree on calling it a day. I simply can’t understand why things are so personal when it comes to me though. I’ll sleep ok though.
                          Regards

                          Herlock




                          “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                          “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                          “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                          “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                          “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Observer View Post

                            Not a lot. However if it's a question of Druitt casually renting a room for a night, how do you equate this with the fact that the killer knew the East End like the back of his hand. How would Druitt acquire such a knowledge?
                            Who said "like the back of his hand"?, some modern theorist with a touch of the dramatic?

                            You are aware that all these murders took place just a few minutes from a main high street?
                            It isn't a case of him not being seen, it's more a case of him not being recognised. Of course he was seen, but no-one saw a slithering monster dripping in blood. What they saw were regular people "who couldn't possibly be the killer"!
                            They couldn't see the wood for the trees. He didn't have to "know the backstreets", besides Druitt's chambers in the Minories (at 9 Kings Bench Walk) were just on the edge of the slums.
                            Regards, Jon S.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                              Ok so you’re nitpicking on my choice of the word ‘many’ now. I suppose that you have a set of statistics to hand? Some, a few, several, many, three! The fact that there was a name for it ‘’slumming’’ tends to assume that it was more than a few. The fact remains that some (is ‘some’ ok?) visited the East End for ‘fun.’ Druitt ‘might’ have done the same. Note that I said ‘might’ not that he did or that he definitely did just that he might have. It’s a possibility.

                              And you think that they’d have given it a miss during the ripper scare? In case the ripper decided to branch out from bedraggled prostitutes to upper class men?
                              I think it's in W. J. Fishman's book, The East End 1888, where we read about 'Slumming' and why it was so popular. Some would tour Whitechapel in groups, others by themselves. I mentioned one earlier, a man from the West End who was found dead in his room, in a pub somewhere.

                              Pubs which rented out rooms, like an Inn, had a separate entrance (side door?) from the commercial premises of the Pub itself.
                              Lodgers could come and go at their leisure, at all times of the day or night.
                              The Britannia was a huge premises, most likely had rooms to rent.
                              Regards, Jon S.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                                Druitt's chambers in the Minories (at 9 Kings Bench Walk) were just on the edge of the slums.
                                King's Bench Walk is on the other side of the City, Jon, near The Temple. Wasn't it Druitt's cousin's medical practise (which some have theorised he might have used) that was in The Minories?

                                https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoo...layers=163&b=1

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