Bury and the Chalk Messages

[John Wheat]

Hello, John.

Where was this established?

To Harry D

I believe the Dundee Police established this.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

Hi, John,
Bury's behavior at the end has always mystified me, too.

It appears to me that one characteristic of Bury was that he always wanted to be thought of as more than he was.

The trip to Wolverhampton is the best example, but there are other hints -- his clothing, changing it several times a day; using Ellen's money for a pony and cart so he was a "businessman"; there are probably others that don't come to mind right now.

So, if he killed his wife by accident and then had no idea what to do . . . perhaps if he was going to be accused of murder or be hanged, why not go out as SOMEBODY.

I waffle back and forth between Bury actually being the Ripper and his need to be more than he was.

So, if his drunken contemplation during the week Ellen was stuffed in the trunk led him to the conclusion that he could be hanged as a wife-killer or a legend, I think he would have preferred to go out as the Ripper.

curious

To curious

It is worth noting Bury nearly got off Ellen Bury's murder. It is also worth noting he may have confessed that he was the Ripper to James Berry.

Cheers John

[Harry D]

The chalkings reportedly pre dated Ellen Bury's murder. Which makes it highly unlikely Bury didn't know about them.

Hello, John.

Where was this established?

[curious]

If Bury wasn't either the Ripper or a copycat killer why did he not rub off the chalk messages.

Hi, John,
Bury's behavior at the end has always mystified me, too.

It appears to me that one characteristic of Bury was that he always wanted to be thought of as more than he was.

The trip to Wolverhampton is the best example, but there are other hints -- his clothing, changing it several times a day; using Ellen's money for a pony and cart so he was a "businessman"; there are probably others that don't come to mind right now.

So, if he killed his wife by accident and then had no idea what to do . . . perhaps if he was going to be accused of murder or be hanged, why not go out as SOMEBODY.

I waffle back and forth between Bury actually being the Ripper and his need to be more than he was.

So, if his drunken contemplation during the week Ellen was stuffed in the trunk led him to the conclusion that he could be hanged as a wife-killer or a legend, I think he would have preferred to go out as the Ripper.

curious

[John Wheat]

Well, the easiest solution is that he had seen the writing, did not or could not clean it for some reason, and thats why he was worried the cops would think he was the Ripper. He figures they would see it. He may have simply not cared that it was there until he killed his wife, and had a bit of an "oh ****" moment walking into the cop station when he remembers the state of his back entry. Stranger things have happened, but of course, zero proof.

It is also barely possible that the combination of his guilt and the appearance of the chalk accusations precipitated a psychotic break. One in which his emotions would have been blunted, and his ability to care about consequences. Resulting in him leaving the graffiti alone, maybe killing his wife, and even possibly the confession. Now when I say barely possible, I mean the brain works in mysterious ways and could have done this, in theory. I have no examples of this ever happening, but hope springs eternal, as they say. So maybe it did.

Errata

I find that all highly unlikely and that's a bit of an understatement.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

John

I agree with you on all of those points.
Obviously Pierre did not check the dates for Ellen’s death and the reports of the writing.

while I agree with your comment on point 3, I have to ask can you think of any reason why a murder would write it himself with the intention of blaming a killer from the other end of the country?

Steve

To Steve

I suppose if the murderer was having a mental breakdown however I think even in that mental state it is highly unlikely.

Cheers John

[Scott Nelson]

Does that mean you agree with John Wheat?

[Errata]

To Errata

Possibly. Although it is all quite bizarre. Bury goes to the Police exclaiming he's worried he'll be arrested as a Ripper or the Ripper. He has murdered his wife in a Ripper like fashion. At his residence there are chalk writings indicating that someone believed he was the Ripper or he was the Ripper. Then at the trial he nearly gets off his wife's murder. Then his hangman claims he was the Ripper. There is evidence that Bury wanted to be known as the Ripper but it is conflicting evidence. No one has satisfactorily explained Bury's actions if he wasn't either the Ripper or a copycat killer. It is my opinion that Bury was having a mental breakdown at this point and that he was either the Ripper or a copycat killer.

Cheers John

Well, the easiest solution is that he had seen the writing, did not or could not clean it for some reason, and thats why he was worried the cops would think he was the Ripper. He figures they would see it. He may have simply not cared that it was there until he killed his wife, and had a bit of an "oh ****" moment walking into the cop station when he remembers the state of his back entry. Stranger things have happened, but of course, zero proof.

It is also barely possible that the combination of his guilt and the appearance of the chalk accusations precipitated a psychotic break. One in which his emotions would have been blunted, and his ability to care about consequences. Resulting in him leaving the graffiti alone, maybe killing his wife, and even possibly the confession. Now when I say barely possible, I mean the brain works in mysterious ways and could have done this, in theory. I have no examples of this ever happening, but hope springs eternal, as they say. So maybe it did.

[Elamarna]

1. Unlikely.
2. It reportedly pre dated Ellen's murder.
3. Ludicrous

John

I agree with you on all of those points.
Obviously Pierre did not check the dates for Ellen’s death and the reports of the writing.

while I agree with your comment on point 3, I have to ask can you think of any reason why a murder would write it himself with the intention of blaming a killer from the other end of the country?

Steve

[John Wheat]

Three hypotheses here:

1. It is a myth produced by newspaper journalists.
2. Someone wrote it after the murder of Ellen Bury.
3. Bury wanted to blame Jack the Ripper and wrote it himself.

Regards, Pierre

1. Unlikely.
2. It reportedly pre dated Ellen's murder.
3. Ludicrous

[John Wheat]

To be honest, it does seem like the kinda thing a bunch of kids would write after the killings.

The chalkings reportedly pre dated Ellen Bury's murder. Which makes it highly unlikely Bury didn't know about them.

[Shaggyrand]

I agree Bury was having a breakdown but really how he killed his wife isn't all that similar to JtR. Rope strangulation and some shallow cuts to the abdomen don't really go with throat cutting and rummaging inside someone's guts. The only real mutilation in his case was so he could put the body in a crate.
I tend to more think that Bury had real issues and violent tendencies with women. These made him terrified of being thought of as JtR, so much they moved. After killing Ellen and being unable to go through with finishing his cover up, for whatever reason, he became more terrified of being accused of the Ripper crimes. Seems to me that people wanted him to be Jack and others were more than happy to try and make it so in public perception. The hangman's opinion, the stories about his reactions to any mention of Jack, even the graffiti (which I don't believe he knew about because why act cartoonish every time the name is mentioned but allow that to stand in a spot where it wouldn't be seen? I figure he would have put it on the front and made a show of cleaning it if it was his work)- all more feel like an orchestrated effort at mythmaking than anything to me.
Could be way off... Just how I see it based on what I know about the case. Granted, my knowledge of it could probably be stronger.

[Harry D]

To be honest, it does seem like the kinda thing a bunch of kids would write after the killings.

[Pierre]

If Bury wasn't either the Ripper or a copycat killer why did he not rub off the chalk messages.

Three hypotheses here:

1. It is a myth produced by newspaper journalists.
2. Someone wrote it after the murder of Ellen Bury.
3. Bury wanted to blame Jack the Ripper and wrote it himself.

Regards, Pierre

[John Wheat]

Are you wondering then if there is a kind of pathology that would result in a man purposefully exposing his secret in a public way?

To Errata

Possibly. Although it is all quite bizarre. Bury goes to the Police exclaiming he's worried he'll be arrested as a Ripper or the Ripper. He has murdered his wife in a Ripper like fashion. At his residence there are chalk writings indicating that someone believed he was the Ripper or he was the Ripper. Then at the trial he nearly gets off his wife's murder. Then his hangman claims he was the Ripper. There is evidence that Bury wanted to be known as the Ripper but it is conflicting evidence. No one has satisfactorily explained Bury's actions if he wasn't either the Ripper or a copycat killer. It is my opinion that Bury was having a mental breakdown at this point and that he was either the Ripper or a copycat killer.

Cheers John