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Bury and the Chalk Messages

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  • Bury and the Chalk Messages

    If Bury wasn't either the Ripper or a copycat killer why did he not rub off the chalk messages.

  • #2
    If he was the Ripper or a copycat why didn't he rub off the messages? Did he think it would be funny to advertise but couldn't afford to take out an ad in the paper?
    Iím often irrelevant. It confuses people.

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    • #3
      Are we even sure he saw them? They could have been quite new, and they may not have used that back door often.
      The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Errata View Post
        Are we even sure he saw them? They could have been quite new, and they may not have used that back door often.
        I think it highly unlikely Bury didn't know about the messages even if they weren't written by Bury or Ellen.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Shaggyrand View Post
          If he was the Ripper or a copycat why didn't he rub off the messages? Did he think it would be funny to advertise but couldn't afford to take out an ad in the paper?
          Maybe he wanted it known he was the Ripper. At least at that point in time.
          Last edited by John Wheat; 04-30-2016, 11:19 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
            Maybe he wanted it known he was the Ripper. At least at that point in time.
            Are you wondering then if there is a kind of pathology that would result in a man purposefully exposing his secret in a public way?
            The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Errata View Post
              Are you wondering then if there is a kind of pathology that would result in a man purposefully exposing his secret in a public way?
              To Errata

              Possibly. Although it is all quite bizarre. Bury goes to the Police exclaiming he's worried he'll be arrested as a Ripper or the Ripper. He has murdered his wife in a Ripper like fashion. At his residence there are chalk writings indicating that someone believed he was the Ripper or he was the Ripper. Then at the trial he nearly gets off his wife's murder. Then his hangman claims he was the Ripper. There is evidence that Bury wanted to be known as the Ripper but it is conflicting evidence. No one has satisfactorily explained Bury's actions if he wasn't either the Ripper or a copycat killer. It is my opinion that Bury was having a mental breakdown at this point and that he was either the Ripper or a copycat killer.

              Cheers John

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              • #8
                Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
                If Bury wasn't either the Ripper or a copycat killer why did he not rub off the chalk messages.
                Three hypotheses here:

                1. It is a myth produced by newspaper journalists.
                2. Someone wrote it after the murder of Ellen Bury.
                3. Bury wanted to blame Jack the Ripper and wrote it himself.

                Regards, Pierre

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                • #9
                  To be honest, it does seem like the kinda thing a bunch of kids would write after the killings.

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                  • #10
                    I agree Bury was having a breakdown but really how he killed his wife isn't all that similar to JtR. Rope strangulation and some shallow cuts to the abdomen don't really go with throat cutting and rummaging inside someone's guts. The only real mutilation in his case was so he could put the body in a crate.
                    I tend to more think that Bury had real issues and violent tendencies with women. These made him terrified of being thought of as JtR, so much they moved. After killing Ellen and being unable to go through with finishing his cover up, for whatever reason, he became more terrified of being accused of the Ripper crimes. Seems to me that people wanted him to be Jack and others were more than happy to try and make it so in public perception. The hangman's opinion, the stories about his reactions to any mention of Jack, even the graffiti (which I don't believe he knew about because why act cartoonish every time the name is mentioned but allow that to stand in a spot where it wouldn't be seen? I figure he would have put it on the front and made a show of cleaning it if it was his work)- all more feel like an orchestrated effort at mythmaking than anything to me.
                    Could be way off... Just how I see it based on what I know about the case. Granted, my knowledge of it could probably be stronger.
                    Iím often irrelevant. It confuses people.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Harry D View Post
                      To be honest, it does seem like the kinda thing a bunch of kids would write after the killings.
                      The chalkings reportedly pre dated Ellen Bury's murder. Which makes it highly unlikely Bury didn't know about them.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pierre View Post
                        Three hypotheses here:

                        1. It is a myth produced by newspaper journalists.
                        2. Someone wrote it after the murder of Ellen Bury.
                        3. Bury wanted to blame Jack the Ripper and wrote it himself.

                        Regards, Pierre
                        1. Unlikely.
                        2. It reportedly pre dated Ellen's murder.
                        3. Ludicrous

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
                          1. Unlikely.
                          2. It reportedly pre dated Ellen's murder.
                          3. Ludicrous
                          John

                          I agree with you on all of those points.
                          Obviously Pierre did not check the dates for Ellenís death and the reports of the writing.

                          while I agree with your comment on point 3, I have to ask can you think of any reason why a murder would write it himself with the intention of blaming a killer from the other end of the country?

                          Steve

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
                            To Errata

                            Possibly. Although it is all quite bizarre. Bury goes to the Police exclaiming he's worried he'll be arrested as a Ripper or the Ripper. He has murdered his wife in a Ripper like fashion. At his residence there are chalk writings indicating that someone believed he was the Ripper or he was the Ripper. Then at the trial he nearly gets off his wife's murder. Then his hangman claims he was the Ripper. There is evidence that Bury wanted to be known as the Ripper but it is conflicting evidence. No one has satisfactorily explained Bury's actions if he wasn't either the Ripper or a copycat killer. It is my opinion that Bury was having a mental breakdown at this point and that he was either the Ripper or a copycat killer.

                            Cheers John
                            Well, the easiest solution is that he had seen the writing, did not or could not clean it for some reason, and thats why he was worried the cops would think he was the Ripper. He figures they would see it. He may have simply not cared that it was there until he killed his wife, and had a bit of an "oh ****" moment walking into the cop station when he remembers the state of his back entry. Stranger things have happened, but of course, zero proof.

                            It is also barely possible that the combination of his guilt and the appearance of the chalk accusations precipitated a psychotic break. One in which his emotions would have been blunted, and his ability to care about consequences. Resulting in him leaving the graffiti alone, maybe killing his wife, and even possibly the confession. Now when I say barely possible, I mean the brain works in mysterious ways and could have done this, in theory. I have no examples of this ever happening, but hope springs eternal, as they say. So maybe it did.
                            The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

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                            • #15
                              Does that mean you agree with John Wheat?

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