Bury and the Chalk Messages

[John Wheat]

John

I agree with you on all of those points.
Obviously Pierre did not check the dates for Ellen’s death and the reports of the writing.

while I agree with your comment on point 3, I have to ask can you think of any reason why a murder would write it himself with the intention of blaming a killer from the other end of the country?

Steve

To Steve

I suppose if the murderer was having a mental breakdown however I think even in that mental state it is highly unlikely.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

Well, the easiest solution is that he had seen the writing, did not or could not clean it for some reason, and thats why he was worried the cops would think he was the Ripper. He figures they would see it. He may have simply not cared that it was there until he killed his wife, and had a bit of an "oh ****" moment walking into the cop station when he remembers the state of his back entry. Stranger things have happened, but of course, zero proof.

It is also barely possible that the combination of his guilt and the appearance of the chalk accusations precipitated a psychotic break. One in which his emotions would have been blunted, and his ability to care about consequences. Resulting in him leaving the graffiti alone, maybe killing his wife, and even possibly the confession. Now when I say barely possible, I mean the brain works in mysterious ways and could have done this, in theory. I have no examples of this ever happening, but hope springs eternal, as they say. So maybe it did.

Errata

I find that all highly unlikely and that's a bit of an understatement.

Cheers John

[curious]

If Bury wasn't either the Ripper or a copycat killer why did he not rub off the chalk messages.

Hi, John,
Bury's behavior at the end has always mystified me, too.

It appears to me that one characteristic of Bury was that he always wanted to be thought of as more than he was.

The trip to Wolverhampton is the best example, but there are other hints -- his clothing, changing it several times a day; using Ellen's money for a pony and cart so he was a "businessman"; there are probably others that don't come to mind right now.

So, if he killed his wife by accident and then had no idea what to do . . . perhaps if he was going to be accused of murder or be hanged, why not go out as SOMEBODY.

I waffle back and forth between Bury actually being the Ripper and his need to be more than he was.

So, if his drunken contemplation during the week Ellen was stuffed in the trunk led him to the conclusion that he could be hanged as a wife-killer or a legend, I think he would have preferred to go out as the Ripper.

curious

[Harry D]

The chalkings reportedly pre dated Ellen Bury's murder. Which makes it highly unlikely Bury didn't know about them.

Hello, John.

Where was this established?

[John Wheat]

Hi, John,
Bury's behavior at the end has always mystified me, too.

It appears to me that one characteristic of Bury was that he always wanted to be thought of as more than he was.

The trip to Wolverhampton is the best example, but there are other hints -- his clothing, changing it several times a day; using Ellen's money for a pony and cart so he was a "businessman"; there are probably others that don't come to mind right now.

So, if he killed his wife by accident and then had no idea what to do . . . perhaps if he was going to be accused of murder or be hanged, why not go out as SOMEBODY.

I waffle back and forth between Bury actually being the Ripper and his need to be more than he was.

So, if his drunken contemplation during the week Ellen was stuffed in the trunk led him to the conclusion that he could be hanged as a wife-killer or a legend, I think he would have preferred to go out as the Ripper.

curious

To curious

It is worth noting Bury nearly got off Ellen Bury's murder. It is also worth noting he may have confessed that he was the Ripper to James Berry.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

Hello, John.

Where was this established?

To Harry D

I believe the Dundee Police established this.

Cheers John

[curious]

To curious

It is worth noting Bury nearly got off Ellen Bury's murder. It is also worth noting he may have confessed that he was the Ripper to James Berry.

Cheers John

Indeed it is. Don't you wonder if he would have succeeded in convincing the court if he had not devolved to such an extent? Could he have carried it off earlier in his life? Had he?

And see, to me, that's another thing that doesn't make sense to me -- perhaps it will to you. Why bring up the Ripper at all if he thought he could convince the authorities Ellen's death was suicide? Why draw attention to that?

Any thoughts?

curious

[John Wheat]

Indeed it is. Don't you wonder if he would have succeeded in convincing the court if he had not devolved to such an extent? Could he have carried it off earlier in his life? Had he?

And see, to me, that's another thing that doesn't make sense to me -- perhaps it will to you. Why bring up the Ripper at all if he thought he could convince the authorities Ellen's death was suicide? Why draw attention to that?

Any thoughts?

curious

To curious

I think by the time Bury had walked into the police station Bury was all over the place mentally speaking. Which may explain his actions.

Cheers John

[Errata]

To curious

I think by the time Bury had walked into the police station Bury was all over the place mentally speaking. Which may explain his actions.

Cheers John

I'm told there is a special kind of dumb that arises from a dumb person trying to be smart. Like a train wreck of dumb... one car crashing into the next.

[John Wheat]

I'm told there is a special kind of dumb that arises from a dumb person trying to be smart. Like a train wreck of dumb... one car crashing into the next.

To Errata

I'm not sure we can conclude that Bury was dumb. I think it more likely that Bury was all over the place mentally speaking leading up to, during and after murdering Ellen. And that's why his actions at the Police Station etc were strange.

Cheers John

[Harry D]

To Harry D

I believe the Dundee Police established this.

Cheers John

Even if the graffiti did pre-date the murder, it still sounds like a prank rather than an admission of guilt. People knew the Burys had moved from the East End. It only takes a mischievous kid or two and a little imagination.

For one, the graffiti was OUTSIDE, which increases the odds that it was written by a stranger. There were two pieces of graffiti, one by the backdoor, one by the stairwell to the basement. When I was a wee lad, you'd often find graffiti on old buildings left to spook other kids by saying that it's haunted or a serial killer lives there. I can definitely see something similar at work here.

[John Wheat]

Even if the graffiti did pre-date the murder, it still sounds like a prank rather than an admission of guilt. People knew the Burys had moved from the East End. It only takes a mischievous kid or two and a little imagination.

For one, the graffiti was OUTSIDE, which increases the odds that it was written by a stranger. There were two pieces of graffiti, one by the backdoor, one by the stairwell to the basement. When I was a wee lad, you'd often find graffiti on old buildings left to spook other kids by saying that it's haunted or a serial killer lives there. I can definitely see something similar at work here.

To Harry

All seems a massive coincidence if Bury wasn't the Ripper or a copycat killer though. There's no other instances of that sort of graffito on any other suspects doors.

Cheers John

[Harry D]

All seems a massive coincidence if Bury wasn't the Ripper or a copycat killer though. There's no other instances of that sort of graffito on any other suspects doors.

Yes, it's a funny coincidence that Bury would have Ripper-esque graffiti on his door before he committed a Ripper-like murder.

That's why I doubt it was written before Ellen's murder was discovered.

[Errata]

Yes, it's a funny coincidence that Bury would have Ripper-esque graffiti on his door before he committed a Ripper-like murder.

That's why I doubt it was written before Ellen's murder was discovered.

I dunno. Weird **** happens all the time.

I think the real question is does being weird make it significant? Or is it just weird?

[John Wheat]

Yes, it's a funny coincidence that Bury would have Ripper-esque graffiti on his door before he committed a Ripper-like murder.

That's why I doubt it was written before Ellen's murder was discovered.

Yes but it reportedly was written before Ellen's murder. Maybe by Ellen herself, maybe by Bury.