Questions about Ellen

[John Wheat]

We’ve all heard about Ellen’s remark, “Oh, Jack the Ripper is quiet now,” which she was reported to have made while the Burys were living in Dundee—but she made this remark long after the Kelly murder, and I don’t see anything particularly unusual about it.

To Wyatt

Why would Ellen make the remark "Jack the Ripper is quiet now". If she didn't at least suspect Bury was Jack?

[Wyatt Earp]

Happy gnu year to everyone. This could be a thread where we ask a variety of questions about Bury’s wife, Ellen, and so here is another one for you: do you think that Ellen knew, or would have known, that her husband was the Ripper? I’m not convinced that she knew.

We’ve all heard about Ellen’s remark, “Oh, Jack the Ripper is quiet now,” which she was reported to have made while the Burys were living in Dundee—but she made this remark long after the Kelly murder, and I don’t see anything particularly unusual about it. Bury’s trial included a lot of “bad character” testimony about him, and Ellen did tell things about him to her sister, Margaret, per Margaret’s trial testimony, but there’s nothing in Margaret’s testimony which suggests that Ellen suspected him of being the Ripper.

At Bury’s trial, James Martin, Bury’s former employer, testified that on one occasion Bury “had not been home for two nights.” Where he was or who he was staying with we do not know, but it establishes that he could be gone from home for a couple of days at a time. A newspaper account of the police investigation into Bury stated “The London authorities are not inclined to believe that prisoner was connected with any of the recent atrocities in Whitechapel, as he was well known in the locality, and had never been seen out at any untimely hours.” If this report is accurate, it suggests that the police were not able to establish that Bury was in Bow on the nights or mornings of the murders—if they could have placed him in Bow at the times of the murders, they would have been able to positively rule him out. At Bury’s trial, Margaret testified that Ellen told her “he was always drinking and would let some one else do his work while he staid in the public house.” This suggests that Bury had at least one friend/associate/accomplice to whom he could have gone with his anatomical trophies for a cookout. What all of this means is that Bury might not have gone straight home following a murder, and Ellen could indeed have been in the dark about his doings.

Bury had a trunk in which women’s trinkets “of very inferior metal,” which evidently did not belong to Ellen, were found. This trunk did contain some of Ellen’s clothing when it was unlocked and searched by the police, but Bury could have thrown some of Ellen’s clothes into this trunk following her murder to mask the fact that he had the women’s trinkets in it—when a couple has two trunks, it’s reasonable to expect they would be “his and hers” trunks, and Bury’s own clothes were found in the trunk containing the women’s trinkets. Twice when we meet this trunk in Dundee it is locked, both at Union Street and at Princes Street. If Ellen had stuck her nose into his trunk while he was out on a sawdust run, she could have discovered the trinkets and would have known that they did not belong to her. It’s possible that Bury kept this trunk locked at all times in order to keep Ellen out of it.

Just some things to consider as we ponder, “Did Ellen know?”

[Wyatt Earp]

Thanks for that, Robert.

[Robert]

Should have posted this link :

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...dundee&f=false

[Robert]

Hi Wyatt

No mention of her here. She may have gone into a paupers' grave :

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=cr&CRid=1974320

[Wyatt Earp]

Sorry if I missed this somewhere—does anyone know where Ellen is buried? Anyone have any photos of the site?

Also, has anyone conducted research on the Elliot(t) family in an effort to identify living relatives? Ellen’s sister Margaret Corney went up to Dundee in February 1889 to identify Ellen’s body, and she was also there in late March for the trial. It seems very likely she would have taken some of Ellen’s things back with her, especially Ellen’s jewelry, which seems to have been nice, either as personal remembrances or as things to sell. It also seems very likely Margaret would have received one of the Wolverhampton photos from Ellen from the time when the Burys were living in Bow. I wonder if some of that stuff might still be around today.

You never know what’s going to turn up in attics…

Beadle has some stuff on Ellen’s family beginning on page 69 of his book, Jack the Ripper Unmasked.