Does anything rule Bury out?

[John Wheat]

johns presented a series of conjectures - by no means outlandish ones, but conjecture nonetheless. The best we can say is that, if these conjectures are correct, they would support the idea that Bury might have been the Ripper.

As usual you continue to understate the case against Bury.

[Sam Flynn]

As usual you continue to understate the case against Bury.

I don't understate it. I'm seeing the murder for what it is: A ligature, some stabs and four inch abdominal cut with bulging bowels, the latter possibly only because Ellen was folded up and stuffed into a box. That's not a Ripper murder; it's not even a variation on a Ripper murder.

[Harry D]

Knowing that he arrived in London in 1887 and left in spring 1889, I'd be more impressed if we'd seen at least one Ripper-like murder in 1887, or during the first half of 1888 at least. I'd be even more impressed if we'd another Whitechapel mutilation murder after Mary Kelly before Bury's departure, but we don't.

And this is entirely your subjective interpretation of the killer's behaviour. Where in the rulebook does it state that Bury must have killed in 1887 or again in 1888? We can't say what the killer should or shouldn't have done, for the simple reason that he was never caught in the first place. Maybe the killer's behaviour would surprise us?

Murders of strangers on the streets are rare; domestic murders, however, are sadly more common. Ellen Bury's murder belonged in the latter category, whether WHB was the Ripper or not.

But domestic murders are not mutually exclusive with serial killings. Serial killers have murdered spouses/partners before.

He throttled Ellen with a rope, and inflicted a few modest (by JTR standards) cuts to her belly. The cuts seem to me less indicative of a paraphilia than of an afterthought.

Dr. Templeman said “the wounds to the abdomen must have been inflicted either during life or at most ten minutes after death". That doesn't prove it was a paraphilia of his, but it's noteworthy that Bury's first reaction was to mutilate the abdomen.

[Abby Normal]

I don't understate it. I'm seeing the murder for what it is: A ligature, some stabs and four inch abdominal cut with bulging bowels, the latter possibly only because Ellen was folded up and stuffed into a box. That's not a Ripper murder; it's not even a variation on a Ripper murder.

Sam
Cmon. be alittle more open minded. It very well may be a ripper murder.

Here we have a suspect that was in the area at the time.
his coming to and leaving from London match up with at least the c5.
he was known to be abusive to women
frequented prostitutes
yes Ellen was killed a little differently(but she was his wife killed in his house) but theres post mortem mutilation to the abdomen.
Knife used
not ruled out by witness descriptions.
Most importantly-he was a person of interest at the time.

hes got to be in the short list as most viable candidates.

[Harry D]

hes got to be in the short list as most viable candidates.

I would put Bury in a league of his own.

Find me another named suspect who ticks all those boxes. There isn't one.

[Sam Flynn]

And this is entirely your subjective interpretation of the killer's behaviour. Where in the rulebook does it state that Bury must have killed in 1887 or again in 1888?

All I said is that I'd be more impressed if he had. Nothing subjective about that statement.

[Sam Flynn]

Dr. Templeman said “the wounds to the abdomen must have been inflicted either during life or at most ten minutes after death". That doesn't prove it was a paraphilia of his, but it's noteworthy that Bury's first reaction was to mutilate the abdomen.

Was it his first reaction? Or was it an afterthought? Besides, there's attacking the abdomen... and then there's Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly.

[Sam Flynn]

Here we have a suspect that was in the area at the time.

Along with a couple of tens of thousands of others yet to be named, among whom may well have been the Ripper.

hes got to be in the short list as most viable candidates.

Of the "known knowns", yes - as I've often said - but there's not much competition, and the case against him really isn't that strong. Bear in mind that I don't consider Tabram or Stride as definite Ripper murders, and I have some reservations over Kelly, so my qualifying criteria are pretty stringent.

[Sam Flynn]

But domestic murders are not mutually exclusive with serial killings. Serial killers have murdered spouses/partners before.

Oh, indeed, but I allowed for that possibility: "Ellen Bury's murder belonged in the [domestic] category, whether WHB was the Ripper or not."

However, all we have is evidence that Bury was a wife-killer, a comparatively common species of murderer. We don't have any evidence that he killed strangers.

[Abby Normal]

Along with a couple of tens of thousands of others yet to be named, among whom may well have been the Ripper.
Of the "known knowns", yes - as I've often said - but there's not much competition, and the case against him really isn't that strong. Bear in mind that I don't consider Tabram or Stride as definite Ripper murders, and I have some reservations over Kelly, so my qualifying criteria are pretty stringent.

yes agreed, as Ive often said-all the suspects are weak, some just less weak than others!

Ive got tabram, c5 and McKenzie as ripper victims, and my main beef with Bury is Mckenzie obviously, since he couldn't have been her killer.
If it wasn't for McKenzie, Id have him higher on my list.

Just out of curiosity, Sam, who is your favored ripper suspect/s??

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Abby

Just out of curiosity, Sam, who is your favored ripper suspect/s??

He hasn't yet been named, in my view.

[Abby Normal]

Hello Abby
He hasn't yet been named, in my view.

blotchy then?

[Sam Flynn]

blotchy then?

I won't get drawn into that on a Bury thread, Abs

[Abby Normal]

I won't get drawn into that on a Bury thread, Abs

dam!!

[John Wheat]

I don't understate it. I'm seeing the murder for what it is: A ligature, some stabs and four inch abdominal cut with bulging bowels, the latter possibly only because Ellen was folded up and stuffed into a box. That's not a Ripper murder; it's not even a variation on a Ripper murder.

Garbage. Yes you do and in a pompous manner.