Does anything rule Bury out?

[curious]

To Abby Normal

Bury sold his horse and cart around the end of the first week in December according to Ellen Bury's sister Margaret Corney, roughly a month after Mary Jane Kelly was murdered. William Henry and Ellen Bury departed on the SS Cambria for Dundee on Saturday the 19th of January 1889, arriving in Dundee on the evening of Sunday 20th of January 1889.

Cheers John

Is that from her memory?

Would she have been in close enough contact with Ellen to have personally known the date, or was it something Ellen would have mentioned to her after the fact?

Thx,

curious

[John Wheat]

To Curious

The evidence suggests Margaret Corney was close to her sister. Margaret apparently having warned Bury, 'Don't I'll- use her; Don't ill-use the poor girl' After she found out Bury had hit Ellen. Margaret also saw Ellen the day before Ellen and William Henry departed for Dundee. Which suggests that Margaret may have been in close enough contact with Ellen to have personally known the date.

Cheers John

[curious]

To Curious

The evidence suggests Margaret Corney was close to her sister. Margaret apparently having warned Bury, 'Don't I'll- use her; Don't ill-use the poor girl' After she found out Bury had hit Ellen. Margaret also saw Ellen the day before Ellen and William Henry departed for Dundee. Which suggests that Margaret may have been in close enough contact with Ellen to have personally known the date.

Cheers John

Which would appear to rule out Rose Mylett, whom I personally like because of the cord used to kill her.

curious

[John Wheat]

Which would appear to rule out Rose Mylett, whom I personally like because of the cord used to kill her.

curious

To Curious

I'm not sure I follow why would Margaret Corney's closeness to her sister rule out Rose Mylett as a Ripper victim? Unless your getting the dates confused. Rose Mylett was strangled on the night of the 19th/20th of December 1888 and may or may not have been a Ripper victim.

Cheers John

[curious]

To Curious

I'm not sure I follow why would Margaret Corney's closeness to her sister rule out Rose Mylett as a Ripper victim? Unless your getting the dates confused. Rose Mylett was strangled on the night of the 19th/20th of December 1888 and may or may not have been a Ripper victim.

Cheers John

Isn't the 19th/20th December 1888 AFTER it appears that Bury sold his horse/pony and cart?

If Margaret Corney was correct about the date. Or if selling his rig indeed stopped Bury from going down into Whitechapel.

curious

[Errata]

To Wyatt Earp/Errata

Bury was a self-employed sand and sawdust merchant up until the point he sold his pony and cart. Although I suspect Bury spent most of the time he was allegedly working drinking in various pubs. Bury was fired by Martin however this was much earlier in 1888. I don't believe Bury being fired had much impact on his decision to leave London as this happened months before he decided to leave.

Cheers John

Bury was fired in March of 1888. He was rehired late April/ early May, in June Ellen sold the last of the shares, and by the beginning of December had blown through all 500 pounds. They took a week long vacation, took a friend, bought jewelry etc. So he had gotten fired, and after being rehired apparently stopped making money. Evidently needing to sell the horse and cart. Moving takes time. I think he knew he was leaving when he sold the horse. He figures out the particulars for about a month, has the crates made, plans change, and he's in Dundee by the 20th of January. That seems like a normal time frame.

Saying that the guy is a runner doesn't means he leaves everything and vanishes. He just decides that he can't get a break where he is and he moves. He doesn't try past when it gets hard. It's not even huge things that precipitate a move. These guys feel like they are owed a certain amount of success without working for it, and when it doesn't happen, they decide that fault lies within everyone else and not themselves. So they go somewhere else where they believe they can get a fair shot. They never do get one because their beliefs are unreasonable, but as far as self destructive behaviors go, this one is pretty common. It's the same belief system that create deadbeat dads

[Wyatt Earp]

Bury was fired in March of 1888. He was rehired late April/ early May, in June Ellen sold the last of the shares, and by the beginning of December had blown through all 500 pounds. They took a week long vacation, took a friend, bought jewelry etc. So he had gotten fired, and after being rehired apparently stopped making money. Evidently needing to sell the horse and cart. Moving takes time. I think he knew he was leaving when he sold the horse. He figures out the particulars for about a month, has the crates made, plans change, and he's in Dundee by the 20th of January. That seems like a normal time frame.

Saying that the guy is a runner doesn't means he leaves everything and vanishes. He just decides that he can't get a break where he is and he moves. He doesn't try past when it gets hard. It's not even huge things that precipitate a move. These guys feel like they are owed a certain amount of success without working for it, and when it doesn't happen, they decide that fault lies within everyone else and not themselves. So they go somewhere else where they believe they can get a fair shot. They never do get one because their beliefs are unreasonable, but as far as self destructive behaviors go, this one is pretty common. It's the same belief system that create deadbeat dads

Errata, thank you for sharing your view.

[Wyatt Earp]

Hi Wyatt
Just an interesting note-so the three confirmed murderers of women suspects-Bury, Chapman and Kelly all seemingly restless souls who like to travel/move. Interesting. I guess sociopaths don't get emotionally tied down
to one place.

Yeah, the three amigos. I guess if you do bad things, you better be prepared to change your address.

[John Wheat]

Isn't the 19th/20th December 1888 AFTER it appears that Bury sold his horse/pony and cart?

If Margaret Corney was correct about the date. Or if selling his rig indeed stopped Bury from going down into Whitechapel.

curious

To Curious

Bow is within walking distance of Whitechapel.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

Bury was fired in March of 1888. He was rehired late April/ early May...

To Errata

Bury was not rehired by James Martin in April/May 1888. In actual fact Bury purchased the sand and sawdust he required for his business in May 1888 off of Martin. Meaning Bury was self employed from May 1888 until he sold his horse and cart in December 1888. This info can be gleaned from Chapter 5 of William Beadle's book 'Jack the Ripper Unmasked'.

Cheers John

[Errata]

To Errata

Bury was not rehired by James Martin in April/May 1888. In actual fact Bury purchased the sand and sawdust he required for his business in May 1888 off of Martin. Meaning Bury was self employed from May 1888 until he sold his horse and cart in December 1888. This info can be gleaned from Chapter 5 of William Beadle's book 'Jack the Ripper Unmasked'.

Cheers John

I'm perfectly willing to believe that my hasty precis of 1888-1889 is vague and therefor wrong. But something doesn't seem right.

He's fired in March. Ellen cashes out a stock so he can pay off his debt to employer. She doesn't touch the rest of it until June. So you gotta ask yourself how he paid for supplies. He wasn't working, his wife had not yet cashed out her stocks, and the guy who fired Bury for not paying his debts is highly unlikely to give him credit. I have no idea what the answer to this blip is, I don't know if it's significant in any way, but for some reason you bringing it up made me look at it a little differently.

And I'm wondering if we have different definitions of employment? As best I can tell he was employed by Martin and he worked on commission. Essentially he went out and drummed up business, maintained contacts, his clients were his, but in the end he was an employees working for a cut of the sales. The way most salesmen work. It is not what I define as self employed, but if that is your definition of self employed, then at least I know we are talking about the same thing.

[John Wheat]

I'm perfectly willing to believe that my hasty precis of 1888-1889 is vague and therefor wrong. But something doesn't seem right.

And I'm wondering if we have different definitions of employment? As best I can tell he was employed by Martin and he worked on commission. Essentially he went out and drummed up business, maintained contacts, his clients were his, but in the end he was an employees working for a cut of the sales. The way most salesmen work. It is not what I define as self employed, but if that is your definition of self employed, then at least I know we are talking about the same thing.

To Errata

No we don't have different definitions of employment. As I previously stated Bury was self employed from May 1888. I assume Ellen funded Bury's purchasing of sand and sawdust. It's worth noting that Ellen paid for Bury's horse and cart.

Cheers John

[johns]

To address the OPs original question...

Nothing rules Bury out for being JtR. Some of the suspects are ruled out because they were in jail or abroad or a ridiculously invented suspect in the first place or whatever as far as I can make out.

Nothing directly connects him with any murder in the London area throughout 1888... and nothing connects the myriad of other suspects either as far as I'm aware.


John

[John Wheat]

To address the OPs original question...

Nothing rules Bury out for being JtR. Some of the suspects are ruled out because they were in jail or abroad or a ridiculously invented suspect in the first place or whatever as far as I can make out.

Nothing directly connects him with any murder in the London area throughout 1888... and nothing connects the myriad of other suspects either as far as I'm aware.


John

To John

This is all of course true but at least Bury is a proven murderer and not some random bloke with a moustache who happened to be in Whitechapel at the time of the murders. And he used a knife to mutilate his wife's abdomen.

Cheers John

[johns]

I totally agree John. I was just directly responding to the OPs points rather than elaborating further.

For me, Bury was JtR.. end of discussion. But that's just my opinion after years of reading and researching.

If the subject ever crops up and someone says "oh yes that Jack the Ripper. He was a member of the Royal family," I inform them that the Royal Ripper is totally made up drivel which only keeps going because of the Royal angle. I then further inform and explain why Bury was JtR at which point they've either walked away or nodded saying "Ooh interesting".

Regards
John (the other one)