Does anything rule Bury out?

[Wyatt Earp]

Fact is we don't know how the Ripper's mindset worked until we know who the Ripper was.

There is only one explanation that cannot be ruled out, and that is that William Bury was Jack the Ripper.

[John Wheat]

Fact is we don't know how the Ripper's mindset worked until we know who the Ripper was.

To Harry

I should have started my last post with supposing Bury was the Ripper.

[Harry D]

Fact is we don't know how the Ripper's mindset worked until we know who the Ripper was.

[John Wheat]

Look at what Bury did following the murder:

He burned some of her clothes in the fireplace.

To Wyatt

I find the burning of Ellen's clothes in the fireplace interesting. Some of Mary Jane Kelly's clothes were burned in her fireplace. I also think it might be significant that Mary Jane Kelly had the same first and middle names as Bury's mother and eldest sister who bury probably felt abandoned by and may help to explain why she was so badly mutilated.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

This is what I'm saying. It's hard to gauge intent with a guy this dumb.

To Errata

I don't believe Bury was dumb. I'm not saying he was particularly intelligent either all I am saying is that after killing Ellen. His plan was probably to dump the trunk with Ellen's body somewhere and for whatever reason he couldn't do this. Possibly he couldn't lift the trunk with Ellen in it. I don't think Bury had a backup plan and I think he probably considered various things but ended up going to the police claiming Ellen commited suicide. Maybe Bury thought that was his best option. If he had left Ellen in his flat and scarpered Bury probably thought he would be arrested, charged and eventually hung as Jack the Ripper, the same thing if he left Ellen's dead body in the street.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

John, when I wrote “If the circumstances were different, I think he would have absolutely destroyed her,” what I meant was “If the circumstances permitted it, I think he would have absolutely destroyed her.” I don’t think Ellen’s soliciting or not would have made a bit of difference. If Bury felt he could have gotten away with it, I think we would have seen another Kelly-style extravaganza.

To Wyatt

I agree with what you are saying. Ellen soliciting in London was just an example of a situation where Bury would be more likely to get away with murder. I agree if Bury thought he could get away with it we would have seen Kelly style mutilations.

Cheers John

[Wyatt Earp]

Errata, a couple of things you should keep in mind:

no cut throat = no copycat killer (and “no staged crime scene”)

The “copycat-us interruptus” explanation can also be ruled out. It’s been argued before that Bury panicked, started mutilating Ellen in order to make it look like a Ripper murder, then changed his mind and broke it off. The problem with that argument is that Bury then went on to engage in the behaviors below, which demonstrate that nothing at all had been broken off.

He broke her leg to get her into that demented, sexually degrading pose in the trunk.

He burned some of her clothes in the fireplace.

He went back to the body to perform a couple of additional mutilations, which suggests that he wanted to do a lot more, and was struggling to restrain himself.

There is only one explanation that cannot be ruled out, and that is that William Bury was Jack the Ripper.

Finally, the “Bury is dumb” stuff is childish and looks desperate. Bury had been through school, his confession letter is literate, some people have commented on elegance in some of his handwriting, and it certainly takes some intelligence to be able to write in several hands. There was a lot of negative testimony about Bury during his trial, but nowhere does anyone claim he was stupid.

[Wyatt Earp]

To Wyatt

Of the two scenarios I think yours is the most likely and had the circumstances been different eg Ellen soliciting in London then I too think Bury would have destroyed her.

Cheers John

John, when I wrote “If the circumstances were different, I think he would have absolutely destroyed her,” what I meant was “If the circumstances permitted it, I think he would have absolutely destroyed her.” I don’t think Ellen’s soliciting or not would have made a bit of difference. If Bury felt he could have gotten away with it, I think we would have seen another Kelly-style extravaganza.

[GUT]

So we know that Bury was the Ripper because he did not kill like the Ripper did?

Makes as much sense [probably more] that some of the rubbish proposals around here.

[Errata]

To Errata

Bury actions are strange wether he is or isn't the Ripper, the ridiculous story he told the police claiming Ellen commited suicide etc. Maybe Bury found the trunk with Ellen in it a lot heavier than he thought it would be, perhaps he couldn't lift the trunk with Ellen inside it. I doubt he would ask someone for help with the trunk, considering his murdered wife was inside it. He did keep the trunk for a number of days possibly he was considering what to do with Ellen's body. Maybe he was left with no options other than to claim Ellen commited suicide.

Cheers John

This is what I'm saying. It's hard to gauge intent with a guy this dumb.

[DVV]

He didn't have it in him to butcher his own lover? That might explain the relatively perfunctory mutilations.

You've got the sensitive Ripper, at last.

[John Wheat]

To Errata

Bury actions are strange wether he is or isn't the Ripper, the ridiculous story he told the police claiming Ellen commited suicide etc. Maybe Bury found the trunk with Ellen in it a lot heavier than he thought it would be, perhaps he couldn't lift the trunk with Ellen inside it. I doubt he would ask someone for help with the trunk, considering his murdered wife was inside it. He did keep the trunk for a number of days possibly he was considering what to do with Ellen's body. Maybe he was left with no options other than to claim Ellen commited suicide.

Cheers John

[Errata]

Look at what Bury did following the murder:

He broke her leg to get her into that demented, sexually degrading pose in the trunk.

He burned some of her clothes in the fireplace.

He went back to the body to perform a couple of additional mutilations, which suggests that he wanted to do a lot more, and was struggling to restrain himself.

I don’t think there was any “wifely consideration” here at all. If the circumstances were different, I think he would have absolutely destroyed her.

Is it possible that he panicked after killing her and tried to make it look like a Ripper crime, and then realized that was a terrible idea and just stuffed her in a trunk and went to "confess"?

Some of this is so infuriating because he was dumb. And we expect certain things from people that we can't expect from him because he's dumb. Nothing was done to this woman aside from shoving her in a trunk that could not have been self inflicted. If he had staged the scene so it appeared self inflicted (which would have been easy) he would have been free and clear. He doesn't do that.

We expect a killer to either dispose of the body or shift the blame. Bury really does neither. He says the strangulation was self inflicted, cops to cutting her up and stuffs her in a trunk. Tie the rope to the doorknob, stick her hands in her own blood and put the knife it her hand, and he doesn't have to stuff her in a trunk. Obviously this did not occur to him. He did not shift the blame onto his wife. At least not in any way that would divert suspicion from him.

Putting her in a trunk is pretty much the universal sign that he's going to dispose of her. And he could have. No one knew she was dead yet, no one was watching him, plenty of places to dump a body.

But he doesn't do that either.

If we accept he put her in a trunk to dispose of her, then we must assume he had at least some kind of plan. Probably a bad plan, but a plan. Somehow that plan fell through.Maybe he was going to borrow a cart or something, and then the cart became unavailable? For whatever reason, he could no longer dump her.

He doesn't do the thing that would get him off completely. He doesn't dispose of her, despite apparently initially wanting to. Walking into a cop shop and telling them that he mutilated her abdomen could not POSSIBLY have been the plan. Whether he was or wasn't the Ripper, that was literally the dumbest thing he could do if he didn't want to be investigated as the Ripper. He essentially walked in and said "Hey! I killed my wife!"

So what was the plan? I mean, killing her was apparently unplanned. But he had hours with her after strangling her. How did he think he was going to get away with it? I mean he's dumb, but nobody is so dumb that their first plan is going to be to confess. She ended up in a trunk. So dumping her was Plan A or Plan B. But the abdominal mutilations are weird. They are not Ripper like, for whatever reason. But what if Bury's Plan A was to blame the Ripper? Say he came home and found her like that. Maybe he even chalked he messages on his door etc. to further his story? Maybe he never intended to mutilate her for any other reason than providing an alibi? Jack did it.

And let's say that he has a brief moment of clarity. Maybe he realizes that the wounds might not look like Jack? Maybe he can't go through with the rest? Maybe he realizes that if he even breathes a hint of Jack the Ripper that he is going to be watched for the rest of his life? Maybe he is afraid that the Ripper will kill him if he gets wind of this frame up? But whatever his moment of clarity, he can't blame Jack anymore. Except he cut her up already, and he can't leave her lying around like that. Plan B. Stuff her in a trunk and ditch the body.

Plan B falls through. Now he has a mutilated body in a trunk he can't get rid of. Now he's screwed. He's not a great thinker. He has no idea how to get out of this. The best he can come up with is saying his wife killed herself and hope they don't ask questions as to why she is cut up and stuffed in a trunk. And there is some science backing this up. Everyone knows that the more plans fail, the worse the subsequent plans become. Stress is the brain shredder. Having a spectacular failure follow an even more spectacular failure stresses most people enough that their next plan resembles a kindergartners bank heist plot. Involving elephants and magic.

He might have tried to frame the Ripper. Badly. Without being the Ripper. Ex prostitute wife is as good a target as any.

[John Wheat]

To Wyatt

Of the two scenarios I think yours is the most likely and had the circumstances been different eg Ellen soliciting in London then I too think Bury would have destroyed her.

Cheers John

[Wyatt Earp]

Look at what Bury did following the murder:

He broke her leg to get her into that demented, sexually degrading pose in the trunk.

He burned some of her clothes in the fireplace.

He went back to the body to perform a couple of additional mutilations, which suggests that he wanted to do a lot more, and was struggling to restrain himself.

I don’t think there was any “wifely consideration” here at all. If the circumstances were different, I think he would have absolutely destroyed her.