Bury's handwriting

[Boggles]

Thanks Dave,
Whats your thoughts on 1 vs 2? same hand?

[Cogidubnus]

Whats your thoughts on 1 vs 2? same hand?

Frankly I doubt it...I'm no expert but the basic characteristics seem so very different...look at the length of the stems on the p's and y's for example, the fullness of the Es or otherwise...the general light feel of the hand...

I've a feeling that athough Ellen was illiterate or only semi-literate, she might've recognised her husband's hand...and he therefore paid an accomplice to forge the letter of employment...possible do you suppose?

All the best

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

Further to the above, was Ellen's sister still around at the time? I wonder if part of the point of the fake employment offer was to allay her fears?

Cheers

Dave

[Boggles]

Yes from her witness testimony at the trial Corney said that Bury showed her the letter prior to the trip to Dundee.

There are a few snippits of information around that lead me to speculate whether Bury did have at least one close friend in London who may have acted as an accomplice.

It may even have been the witness Hawkins when you look at it

[Wyatt Earp]

Wyatt i have my reasons for liking the randoms capitals, which i may tell you about if you only wait a whil longer. In the meanwhile whats your thoughts on the other letters - the address London E looks kind of sinister dont you think?

I have been examining the three samples of Bury's handwriting with respect to capitalization. The reason I have been focusing on capitalization is that there are oddities of capitalization in the transcription of the GSG. There is a different pattern of capitalization in each of the three Bury samples.

1. The Confession Letter. This is an example of Bury's "native handwriting." Apart from "Strangulation," the only words that are capitalized in this letter are words that we would expect to be capitalized.

2. The Letter "from Ellen." It is not clear if this should be characterized as "disguised handwriting" or not. The person to whom the letter was sent, Ellen's sister Margaret, recognized it as Bury's writing, but Bury does make changes to his native style in this letter. Quite a few words are capitalized that we would not expect to be capitalized. The capitalization behavior is inconsistent ("Bed" but also "bed"). The capitalized words are almost always nouns, but not exclusively so ("But" in "But poor Will"). The "P/p" in "P/paid" ("P/paid out sick") is a bit of an unknown quantity as it does not seem to match either the "P" of "Pitching-Tossing" or the various lower-case examples of "p" in the letter (although of the two I would say it is a better match with the lower-case form). The form of the capital letter "S" is normally but not always different from the form of that letter in the confession letter (compare "Street" in the two documents). Finally, in one case a word that we would expect to be capitalized in fact begins with a lower-case letter ("the" in "the post leaves" at the end of the letter).

3. The Ogilvy Letter. This is certainly an example of disguised handwriting. A third pattern of capitalization is present here. Bury literally capitalizes every single word, noun or not, beginning with certain letters (e.g., "B," "D," and "W"). Words beginning with other letters (such as "T" or "t") are treated normally. Not all nouns are capitalized (see "years"). Strangely, he spells Ogilvy as Egilvy at the end of the letter.

The GSG has some quirks of capitalization:

The Juwes are
The men that
Will not
be Blamed
for nothing

None of Bury's three patterns of capitalization are a match with this. If the GSG were a match with the confession letter, we would not expect the definite article in question and the verbs to be capitalized. Ditto if it were a match with the letter from Ellen (unless we take "P/paid" to be "Paid," however this would only account for the capitalization of a verb). It is not a match with the Ogilvy letter, either, in the sense that neither the "b" nor the "t" are capitalized at each occurrence (although of the two it is only the "b" that is uniformly capitalized in that letter). Bury does at times write very large lower-case letters, and it could be that the transcriber of the GSG mistook these very large lower-case letters for capital letters, but that seems unlikely for the words beginning with "b" or "t."

I think we can say, "there are some oddities of capitalization in the transcription of the GSG" and "Bury does odd things with capitalization in his handwriting," but that's as far as we can go with it. That said, if there is a different pattern of capitalization for each of these Bury "hands," it is reasonable to expect that a fourth unique sample from Bury, such as the GSG, would contain yet another different pattern of capitalization. From all of this I think it is fair to say that Bury remains a possible candidate for authorship of the GSG.

[Boggles]

Thanks Wyatt, enjoy your ponderings on these matters.

My opinion is he is aware of the correct form of writing, but he has an eccentric lazy streak so he basically dosent give a toss whether he writes correctly or not. I can see where he comes from as im of the same mind myself (rightly or wrongly).

I get this impression because in his house were found two dictionarys and a a book titled orthographical exercises. I dont know which one but probably something like this.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=H...page&q&f=false

Perhaps he is emphasising Strangulation as you suggest. Perhaps when he briefly pauses to think he then capitalises after this?

[Mrsperfect]

Hi Boggles

I am not a bit surprised to see that a book titled orthographical exercises was found in Bury's flat.

He wasn't your average guy for those days. He knows he's better than the next man. He cared so much about spelling and grammar that he wouldn't allow himself to misspell words deliberately.

This is a man who liked to present himself to the world as well dressed and learned.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi all

He wasn't your average guy for those days. He knows he's better than the next man. He cared so much about spelling and grammar that he wouldn't allow himself to misspell words deliberately.

This is a man who liked to present himself to the world as well dressed and learned

I tend to agree he seemed to like to be "a cut above"...which is why I simply can't associate either the Dundee grafitti or the GSG (with it's diabolical grammar and Juwes spelling) with him...I don't think he'd want to be seen in that particular light...right to the end he wanted to be "one-up", even on the hangman...

All the best

Dave

[Boggles]

He cared so much about spelling and grammar that he wouldn't allow himself to misspell words deliberately

which is why I simply can't associate either the Dundee grafitti or the GSG (with it's diabolical grammar and Juwes spelling) with him

Your entitled to your views of course but be assured, what we are dealing with here is a ''very intelligent'' (Gough) often drunk madman. Thats not my quotes, its well documented. When he had the drink in him you cannot put anything past this guy.

I leave you with this quote

"'The kee to ending English iliterasy is to adopt a speling that's riten as it sounds,' he writes in his fashion."
(Joseph Berger, "Struggling to Put the 'Ortho' Back in Orthography." The New York Times, Apr. 23, 1994)

[Cogidubnus]

Ortho-doxy

Re Quote...Quite!

All the best

Dave

[Wyatt Earp]

One of the quirks of the Lusk letter is that the two words "I took" appear to be written as though a single word, connected by a common stroke.

This quirk is present in Bury's handwriting samples on a number of occasions.

In the confession letter, a similar merging is seen in "the Rev" and "the house."

In the letter from Ellen, it is seen in "to promise," "not forgetting," "must please" and "the post."

In the Ogilvy letter it is seen in "a period."

I am not sure if this has been mentioned before, but it's something that I noticed and wanted to point out.

[Boggles]

Great spot Wyatt?, can you see anything else?
Can you see 1 or 2 misplaced capital letters in there as well?

I like the abreviated 'Tother'. I think of my mate from the Black country as he does this as well.

It generally agreed that if any JTR letters were genuine its this one...

[Ashkenaz]

What occurs to me though is what a generally well formed hand it is for the son of a rural fishmonger...

All the best

Dave

Yes, I was interested to see such good writing and spelling. He lost both parents in his first year, and I just imagined he grew up in the work house, this doesn't seem to be the case. Did he have a benefactor ?

[johns]

Bury attended the Blue Coat School in Stourbridge which is (and I imagine, was) a good school. I fully intend to rummage through their archives one day.

[Ashkenaz]

One of the quirks of the Lusk letter is that the two words "I took" appear to be written as though a single word, connected by a common stroke.

This quirk is present in Bury's handwriting samples on a number of occasions.

In the confession letter, a similar merging is seen in "the Rev" and "the house."

In the letter from Ellen, it is seen in "to promise," "not forgetting," "must please" and "the post."

In the Ogilvy letter it is seen in "a period."

I am not sure if this has been mentioned before, but it's something that I noticed and wanted to point out.

Excellent stuff Wyatt !