Signature Analysis and Bury's Murder of Ellen

[Patrick S]

Bury is an interesting fellow. Certainly as attractive a candidate as Chapman, Kosminski, et al.

[Boggles]

as attractive a candidate as Chapman, Kosminski,

Hi Patrick thanks for that good point. I would take it a little further than that though and strongly affirm that as suspects go he is miles ahead of anyone else and in fact the only plausible suspect we have.

Chapman in the area at the time - (which is unusual for a ripper suspect) and he killed women - which alone puts him in the top 0.1% but experience of serial killers has shown us that he is unlikely change his mo as drastically as from a violent mutilation to a non-physical and calculating poisoning

[John Wheat]

To Boggles

I agree Bury is by far the best Ripper suspect we have and the only credible suspect. But strangely he seems to be overlooked by many.

[Abby Normal]

I have always considered Bury a viable candidate for the ripper.
And after thinking about it more, I have to admit, that abdominal mutilations are very rare. That Ellen had them and it was the rippers sig has added another ticked box for me for Burys candidate as a ripper supect.

[Cogidubnus]

A very much personal view

Hi Abby

Bury's very interesting indeed in his own right...and I agree he's also a more-than-viable suspect for the WCMs...

I tend not to promote suspects though, simply because we don't know enough, but if I did, then he (and just possibly McCarthy for Kelly) would perhaps be the nearest I've found...I freely admit though, that may be because I've a soft spot for an outsider!

Conversely, (or perhaps perversely), it is probably this personality fault, as much as anything else, which makes me all the more determined to try to look at every potential suspect hyper-critically in order to try to eliminate any such bias...and it is this which leads me to suggest (see my posts #34, #37 et al) that there is at present somewhat more against Bury as a Ripper candidate than there is for him...

Now if, for example, somebody could build upon/enlarge upon Paddy's really interesting discovery of something which may constitute "previous"...or even come up with something really fresh...who knows...I could be swayed yet!

But in the meantime I'm sitting on the fence nursing me piles...

All the best

Dave

[Boggles]

that abdominal mutilations are very rare

they are indeed and if anyone hasn't read it yet i strongly recommend the paper that Wyatt linked on the original page- the authors who looked into it describe this kind of behavior as extremely rare

The Jack the Ripper murders: a modus operandi and signature analysis of the 1888–1891 Whitechapel murders

i quote one paragraph from it. We really should put a email to these authors making them aware of the Bury case and their view on it.

The initial analyses demonstrated that many of the individual characteristics and the combination of the signature characteristics observed in the Jack the Ripper murders were rare. In fact, murderers who stab and kill female prostitutes, leave their bodies in unusual positions, and probe, explore, or mutilate body cavities are extremely rare. It would be extremely unusual to find more than one of these killers, exhibiting that combination of
signature characteristics, operating in the same area at the same time.

DISCUSSION
As shown by the HITS analysis, the signature characteristics observed in the murders of Tabram, Nichols, Chapman, Stride, Eddowes, and Kelly are extremely rare. At the center of Jack the Ripper’s signature was the display of control over the victim through the use of a knife to penetrate the victims’ bodies and desecrate their sexual regions. Five of the six victims were stabbed repeatedly in the genital area. Stabbing and cutting wounds are
relatively common in murders, but trauma to the genital area is extremely rare—in less than one tenth of one per cent of all murder cases in the HITS system.

[Redjack]

I thought it would be fun to apply the JIPOP analysis of Jack the Ripper's signature to William Bury's murder of his wife Ellen.

Hi Wyatt Earp, sorry for the question, what is exactly JIPOP? I'm working on Bury Case for my blog in this period and i'd like to know as much as possible.

Thanks for your time and really nice article!!

[johns]

Hi Redjack

I think Wyatt means Journal of Investigative Psychology and Offender Profiling.

Regards
John

[Redjack]

I think Wyatt means Journal of Investigative Psychology and Offender Profiling.

Hi Johns,
Thanks a lot for your answer. I'll look for Journal of Investigative Psychology and Offender Profiling on Amazon or other online stores.

I still wait a Wyatt Earp answer for his confirmation or suggestion.

Best Regards
Redjack

[Wyatt Earp]

Hi Johns,
Thanks a lot for your answer. I'll look for Journal of Investigative Psychology and Offender Profiling on Amazon or other online stores.

I still wait a Wyatt Earp answer for his confirmation or suggestion.

Best Regards
Redjack

Redjack, sorry for the late reply, I've been busy with another project and have not looked in here since December. John S has correctly deciphered it for you. I apologize, that was a poor choice of words on my part. The journal didn't produce the analysis, the four authors of the study did.

[Wyatt Earp]

His "teasing" comments about him being arrested as Jack the Ripper or a Jack Ripper and the graffiti at the flat are, again these are just what I personally believe, typical of an "awkward git".

I think he went to the police station in an effort to avoid being charged with murder. I don't see the teasing you suggest as being consistent with that.

[Wyatt Earp]

He did intend to kill Ellen, otherwise why bring an empty packing case to Dundee?

Eileen, why do you believe that this second trunk was empty when the Burys boarded the Cambria? It's true that William Smith testified that it was "almost empty" when it left him, but he also testified that Bury told him "he had more things to put in it at the dock." The stewardess aboard the Cambria, Jane Guild, does not mention this second trunk being empty while aboard the ship. If you study the Princes Street inventory, it looks as though the Burys would have brought enough clothes, books and other things with them on the voyage to necessitate a second trunk.

I think the only good reason to believe that the murder was premeditated is that the murder weapon, the piece of rope or cord, was obtained close to the time of the murder. However we have to consider the trial testimony of Janet Martin, who said that Bury was in her shop "several times" to obtain items, and of Marjory Smith, who testified "He was in my shop daily buying trifles." It's certainly possible that Bury obtained the rope for some other purpose but went for it when he decided to murder Ellen.

In any event, and as I've already suggested, an unexpected murder, such as a murder growing out of an argument, could have occurred regardless of whether or not Bury had been planning something for Ellen.

[Mrsperfect]

Wyatt, Bury also said he was going to Adelaide..............did he? Perhaps he lied about the stuff? How would you explain taking an almost empty crate to Australia?

I just checked my thread to confirm the larger crate was the (almost) empty one. I would have filled the larger crate first, then the smaller one. That way I would not have any clothes in the larger crate when I left the house. He definitely had a purpose for the larger one....not the smaller one!

He may not have bought the rope as a murder weapon, but that's what it became. I personally believe he planned to throw Ellen (in the crate) over the side of the SS Cambria on the way to Dundee. Perhaps Ellen refused to go for a walk once she boarded the vessel?

Exactly how many bodies did JtR dispose of?

Who knows what was in his mind when Bury went to the police station. He thought he was special.........why? Was it because he was JtR?

Eileen

[Sam Flynn]

Did he think he was special? It looks to me like he just handed himself in, weakly trying to pass off Ellen's death as a suicide. It comes across as the act of a complete loser who didn't know what to do.

[John Wheat]

One possible explanation for Bury going to police with a **** and bull story about his wife's suicide is that by this point Bury had lost it mentally. He'd murdered his wife and then capitulated so to speak.

Cheers John