Mock trial for Bury Feb 3

[John Wheat]

I understand all that Sam and you didn't answer the question.

What I cant understand, whether he killed her not (and he did) is why cut the stomach once shes already dead?

any reason you can think of?

The only logical explanation is that he was Jack.

[John G]

I understand all that Sam and you didn't answer the question.

What I cant understand, whether he killed her not (and he did) is why cut the stomach once shes already dead?

any reason you can think of?

He was a psychopath?

[Abby Normal]

He was a psychopath?

LOL. well we already know that. but why specifically slash the stomach post mortem?

especially hard to explain because he was apparently obsessed about NOT being accused of being the ripper?

[Harry D]

LOL. well we already know that. but why specifically slash the stomach post mortem?

especially hard to explain because he was apparently obsessed about NOT being accused of being the ripper?

The mutilation also took place soon after Ellen's death.

[John G]

LOL. well we already know that. but why specifically slash the stomach post mortem?

especially hard to explain because he was apparently obsessed about NOT being accused of being the ripper?

What's also confusing in that respect is the chalk writing confession: "Jack Ripper is at the back of this door", and "Jack Ripper is in this seller [sic]."

Okay, I know the Dundee Advertiser suggested it looked as though it was written by a small boy, but that was presumably because of the spelling and grammatical mistakes-which interestingly also applies to The Diary!

Personally, I think on balance Bury wrote it: if it was there when he moved in it would represent a huge coincidence considering what subsequently happened. And why not rub it off? It's also highly unlikely that someone else wrote it after the murder because no one but Bury entered the apartment from the time of the murder to the discovery of the body; and once the murder had been reported at least one policeman was on duty at the scene of the crime.

[Abby Normal]

What's also confusing in that respect is the chalk writing confession: "Jack Ripper is at the back of this door", and "Jack Ripper is in this seller [sic]."

Okay, I know the Dundee Advertiser suggested it looked as though it was written by a small boy, but that was presumably because of the spelling and grammatical mistakes-which interestingly also applies to The Diary!

Personally, I think on balance Bury wrote it: if it was there when he moved in it would represent a huge coincidence considering what subsequently happened. And why not rub it off? It's also highly unlikely that someone else wrote it after the murder because no one but Bury entered the apartment from the time of the murder to the discovery of the body; and once the murder had been reported at least one policeman was on duty at the scene of the crime.

Hi John
When was it written and discovered?

[John G]

Hi John
When was it written and discovered?

Hi Abby,

The report of the chalk writing appeared in the Dundee Advertiser on the 12th February, the same day that the newspapers reported the rumours that Jack the Ripper had come to Dundee and given himself up.

Interestingly, the article states that the writing was older than the discovery of Ellen's death, although I'm not sure how they could have determined that with any degree of certainty. Of course, the same argument has been raging on for years in respect of the GSG: was it something that had been written recently, or was it an older piece of graffiti?

[John G]

Interestingly, there is evidence that Bury planned to murder is wife before they left London. Thus, he managed to persuade her to relocate to Dundee on the basis that he'd obtained employment with Malcolm, Olgilvy a Co. However, this was completely bogus, although he even forged a letter from the company, clearly written in his own handwriting, confirming the conditions of his employment.

Why the eagerness to get Ellen to Dundee? Well, if he'd planned to kill her then committing the deed in London would have been highly risky, as there were a number of people who'd witnessed him assault his wife, i.e. James Martin, Elizabeth Haynes, William Smith.

However, once in Dundee he apparently turned over a new leaf, presenting himself as the model husband, to the extent were one witness at the trial stated that the Burys "seemed to be on very affectionate terms."

[John Wheat]

Interestingly, there is evidence that Bury planned to murder is wife before they left London. Thus, he managed to persuade her to relocate to Dundee on the basis that he'd obtained employment with Malcolm, Olgilvy a Co. However, this was completely bogus, although he even forged a letter from the company, clearly written in his own handwriting, confirming the conditions of his employment.

Why the eagerness to get Ellen to Dundee? Well, if he'd planned to kill her then committing the deed in London would have been highly risky, as there were a number of people who'd witnessed him assault his wife, i.e. James Martin, Elizabeth Haynes, William Smith.

However, once in Dundee he apparently turned over a new leaf, presenting himself as the model husband, to the extent were one witness at the trial stated that the Burys "seemed to be on very affectionate terms."

In all likeliness Bury left London because he was Jack. Otherwise why not kill your wife and then flee to Dundee?

[Harry D]

There is nothing in the rulebook that says serial killers can't de-escalate.

It's based on flawed criminal profiling, the same one which said serial killers kill and kill and kill and kill, and never stop. We know that to be untrue. It's often been mooted that the killer 'peaked' at Miller's Court. Bury's heart was no longer in it. He mutilated Ellen's corpse out of pure instinct but he couldn't finish the job, so boxed her up. He had time to run, hop on a boat to America, but he didn't. Instead, he waited before going to the cop shop. Many serial killers are ultimately architects of their own demise once they run out of steam.

Why did Bury drag his missus to the other end of the country under false pretenses? Was it just to get her as far away as possible from her family? Or did he feel like the net was closing on him and he had to get out of Dodge?

My position remains the same. William Bury is the best of the named suspects based on the fact he's the only one proven to have committed a "Ripper-esque" murder who can be placed in the East End at the time, and his movements correspond with the canonical five. However, I think a convincing argument can be made for the Torso & Ripper series being committed by the same hand, which would obviously rule him out.

[Wyatt Earp]

The documentary about the mock trial is already out. See http://trialofjacktheripper.pagedemo.co/. I have a brief write-up on the Bury website.

[Abby Normal]

There is nothing in the rulebook that says serial killers can't de-escalate.

It's based on flawed criminal profiling, the same one which said serial killers kill and kill and kill and kill, and never stop. We know that to be untrue. It's often been mooted that the killer 'peaked' at Miller's Court. Bury's heart was no longer in it. He mutilated Ellen's corpse out of pure instinct but he couldn't finish the job, so boxed her up. He had time to run, hop on a boat to America, but he didn't. Instead, he waited before going to the cop shop. Many serial killers are ultimately architects of their own demise once they run out of steam.

Why did Bury drag his missus to the other end of the country under false pretenses? Was it just to get her as far away as possible from her family? Or did he feel like the net was closing on him and he had to get out of Dodge?

My position remains the same. William Bury is the best of the named suspects based on the fact he's the only one proven to have committed a "Ripper-esque" murder who can be placed in the East End at the time, and his movements correspond with the canonical five. However, I think a convincing argument can be made for the Torso & Ripper series being committed by the same hand, which would obviously rule him out.

good post harry

[Busy Beaver]

Sorry if I missed it elsewhere, but was William Bury Left of Right handed?

[John Wheat]

Sorry if I missed it elsewhere, but was William Bury Left of Right handed?

I'm not sure we know for sure however the debate as to wether Jack was right or left handed has raged for years.

[Busy Beaver]

Oh well, we're still no closer to getting the right "man". I was hoping that argument had been agreed upon and I had missed it.