Convince me that it wasn't Barnett

[Barnaby]

In the most unlikely event that he was the killer of Kelly, then chances are it was a copy cat crime. I find the motive that he was mutilating other women to scare Kelly off the streets even more implausible than the copy cat theory.

[Lechmere]

He had an alibi.
His clothes were checked.
He was interrogated at length.
He was a porter not a fish filleter.

[miss marple]

Totally agreed with your analysis Kensei. Joe always was on the look out for Mary even after he left. A fool in love......

Miss Marple

[kensei]

I've long been a defender of Barnett. I can't convince anyone that he wasn't the Ripper, but to me he and MJK fit a classic profile of a dysfunctional couple with alcohol heavily involved who didn't actually split up but were "on a break" and needed time apart. He still visited her after moving out, the sure sign of a boyfriend who was hoping to put things back together. I think he was essentially a stupid boy in love with a very flawed woman. Their heated argument that broke the window means nothing- there were probably hundreds of such incidents throughout Whitechapel/Spitalfields on any given night. I can't see any way that his frustrations with Mary make him go out and kill Polly Nicholls. Makes no sense to me at all.

[moonbegger]

Hello Harry , Yes I also read Dr Frederick Walkers dissertation on Barnett , its very well put together , and I think its the only one that has an answer to the odd similarity's regarding victims names .. something that has bugged me since day one . but I still think the fact that he was arrested at the time of the Miller's Court affair, and interrogated for four hours has got to go a long way to erase suspicion .. but yeah , pretty compelling article .

All victims, real and intended, are named Mary, Ann, or Mary Ann. Two are named Mary Ann Kelly. Recent genealogical evidence published in Ripperana suggests that "Ann" was Mary Kelly's real middle name, and not an alias. Only Barnett is likely to have known this at the time. And, added to the coincidence of the addresses, the coincidence of the names suggests that somebody was obsessed with "Mary Ann Kelly, the Dorset Street whore," killing her again and again, until he finally killed the real one, and then stopped.

cheers
Moonbegger

[GUT]

G'day Pinkmoon

Hi gut,These murders went far and beyond simple murder by mutilating his victims our killer was greatly increasing his chances of been caught this theory about Mr Barnet simple dosnt wash.when people keep mentioning the word witness we never seem to take into account the lighting conditions and the time the so called witnesses had to view our killer I don't really think any suspect can be ruled out purely because he dosnt tally with a description ......except for the elephant man and the lost tribe of American Indians theory.

But wasn't the Elephant Man a local? ...

[The Good Michael]

I find it funny that someone would write in an accent. Obviously, they wouldn't.

Mike

[GUT]

Hi gut,These murders went far and beyond simple murder by mutilating his victims our killer was greatly increasing his chances of been caught this theory about Mr Barnet simple dosnt wash.

Oh I agree that Joe doesn't wash to my way of thinking.

[pinkmoon]

While I, in general, agree with you on this the one exception could be if our killer had a specific goal, he might be able to stop when that goal was achieved.



Agree.

Hi gut,These murders went far and beyond simple murder by mutilating his victims our killer was greatly increasing his chances of been caught this theory about Mr Barnet simple dosnt wash.when people keep mentioning the word witness we never seem to take into account the lighting conditions and the time the so called witnesses had to view our killer I don't really think any suspect can be ruled out purely because he dosnt tally with a description ......except for the elephant man and the lost tribe of American Indians theory.

[lynn cates]

#2

Hello Harry. Good questions.

Regarding #2, aged 40 and foreign looking?

Cheers.
LC

[GUT]

G'day Pinkmoon

Hi,quite possible he had an alibi and I think the fact that he lived happily ever after and didn't butcher any other poor unfortunates can rule him out let's face it when you look at the photo of Kelly who ever did that wasn't going to walk away and live a normal life and all of a sudden get better.People always forget to ask the simple question "what prevented him from killing again" I think any credible suspect has to be either dead or locked up somewhere .

While I, in general, agree with you on this the one exception could be if our killer had a specific goal, he might be able to stop when that goal was achieved.

Also there seems to be an obsession that our killer lived locally it is more than possible that he only visited the area to carry out his awfully work I'm not saying that he didn't have any connection to the area or he hadnt frequented the area at some time but to rule anyone out purely because they aren't local is wrong.

Agree.

[pinkmoon]

Hi,quite possible he had an alibi and I think the fact that he lived happily ever after and didn't butcher any other poor unfortunates can rule him out let's face it when you look at the photo of Kelly who ever did that wasn't going to walk away and live a normal life and all of a sudden get better.People always forget to ask the simple question "what prevented him from killing again" I think any credible suspect has to be either dead or locked up somewhere .Also there seems to be an obsession that our killer lived locally it is more than possible that he only visited the area to carry out his awfully work I'm not saying that he didn't have any connection to the area or he hadnt frequented the area at some time but to rule anyone out purely because they aren't local is wrong.

[Penhalion]

The police might not have known about the latch but Barnett did, therefore he didn't need a key.

And it was Kelly who broke the windows and apparently was up on drunk and disorderly charges in September so it was MJK not Barnett who had the violent temper. Anybody living hand-to-mouth in Whitechapel with long term unemployment, eviction, drunkenness, and prostitution can hardly be described as living any kind of love's dream. However that same scenario applies to a large percentage of EVERBODY living in that area at the time. Their situation was hardly unique and in a way better off than the other victims who had NO stable address.

Many of the apparent witnesses to JtR described a dark haired man with dark eyes and a dark mustache. Since we don't know for sure who JtR was, we can't know which of the various descriptions was correct.

[Harry D]

Hello Penhalion,

Well if the door could be easily unlocked via the window, why were the police forced to knock the door down? There was probably a 'trick' to unbolting it, something which Barnett would've been privy to.

Also, many of the witnesses claim to have seen a man between late 20s early 30s, 5'7" to 5'8" tall, with a fair complexion and moustache, wearing a dark hat and overcoat. Yes, that could apply to a lot of men living in Whitechapel, but it's still a point in Barnett's favour.

We only have Barnett's word for it that the two of them were on 'good terms'. They hardly sound like love's young dream, what with the drunken quarrels and the window being smashed.

[GUT]

G'day Harry

Have to say I agree with Penhalion.