Convince me that it wasn't Barnett

[Lechmere]

Well... I agree with him in as much as I suspect Mary Jeanette Kelly (or close variants) probably wasn't her real name.

[caz]

Have you turned into a daft old woman, Ed?

Evidently

Sorry, my mistake. You've turned into Mike Richards.

Love,

Caz
X

[Michael W Richards]

Surely the Kelly(sorry Marie Jeanette) killing must have been a crime of passion for this mystic Irish redhead, by someone who knew her and had a secret yearning for her singing, someone who unlocked the riddle of the barred door and gained secret admission while she slumbered in innocence.

.....I wonder why this murder attracted Members of Parliament, members of the Royal Irish Branch, the anti-terrorism body that kept tabs on Irish revolutionaries, and a Senior Post Office official to visit the murder scene at the height of the crowds and commotion?

What we can say at this time is that Mary Jeanette Kelly was likely NOT her real name, we do not know where she came from, nor do we know about any affiliation with groups or organizations that contained people willing to kill to further or protect their cause. That doesn't mean she didn't have a real name, it doesn't mean that she wasn't born in Ireland and had affinity with Irish Self Rule causes or Individuals, and it doesn't mean she didn't know some very dangerous people from her "work" or beliefs.

What is known is that whomever killed her found her in her room, entered without making appreciable noise or conversation. We know that when the lights was visible in her room, witnesses heard her singing. And we know that what was done to her in death bears little resemblance to any other alleged Ripper murder...clearly visible by the in situ photos.

None of this excuses Barnett, but it is clear that she likely knew the person who killed her by virtue of the murder location and the absence of any sign of forced entry.

Cheers

[Lechmere]

Evidently

[caz]

Surely the Kelly(sorry Marie Jeanette) killing must have been a crime of passion for this mystic Irish redhead, by someone who knew her and had a secret yearning for her singing, someone who unlocked the riddle of the barred door and gained secret admission while she slumbered in innocence.

Have you turned into a daft old woman, Ed?

Love it!

Love,

Caz
X

[Lechmere]

Surely the Kelly(sorry Marie Jeanette) killing must have been a crime of passion for this mystic Irish redhead, by someone who knew her and had a secret yearning for her singing, someone who unlocked the riddle of the barred door and gained secret admission while she slumbered in innocence.

[Lechmere]

Surely the Kelly killing must have been a crime of passion for this mystic Irish redhead, by someone who knew her and had a secret yearning for her singing, someone who unlocked the riddle of the barred door and gained secret admission while she slumbered in innocence.

[pinkmoon]

I find the copy cat theory equally implausible. If Joe wanted to make her murder look like another ripper killing and distance himself from the crime, he went a bloody funny way about it, killing her indoors, on the very bed they had shared together, instantly making himself a major suspect to be eliminated. He'd have been far safer following her outdoors and taking her by surprise down some dark street. Had the police found the slightest indication of anything incriminating (and my guess is they would have done if he killed her) he could easily have swung as Jack. Too good a copy cat job was as dangerous as not good enough.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi caz,why take a sledgehammer to break a walnut all he had to do was cut her throat slash her about a bit and then leave he certainly spent too much time with her and by spending so much time he would have increased his chances of been caught.He also ran a chance of someone seeing him entering and leaving a room where he lived for a while and the other people who lived near by might well have recognised him very risky indeed.

[caz]

I find the copy cat theory equally implausible. If Joe wanted to make her murder look like another ripper killing and distance himself from the crime, he went a bloody funny way about it, killing her indoors, on the very bed they had shared together, instantly making himself a major suspect to be eliminated. He'd have been far safer following her outdoors and taking her by surprise down some dark street. Had the police found the slightest indication of anything incriminating (and my guess is they would have done if he killed her) he could easily have swung as Jack. Too good a copy cat job was as dangerous as not good enough.

Love,

Caz
X

[Barnaby]

In the most unlikely event that he was the killer of Kelly, then chances are it was a copy cat crime. I find the motive that he was mutilating other women to scare Kelly off the streets even more implausible than the copy cat theory.

[Lechmere]

He had an alibi.
His clothes were checked.
He was interrogated at length.
He was a porter not a fish filleter.

[miss marple]

Totally agreed with your analysis Kensei. Joe always was on the look out for Mary even after he left. A fool in love......

Miss Marple

[kensei]

I've long been a defender of Barnett. I can't convince anyone that he wasn't the Ripper, but to me he and MJK fit a classic profile of a dysfunctional couple with alcohol heavily involved who didn't actually split up but were "on a break" and needed time apart. He still visited her after moving out, the sure sign of a boyfriend who was hoping to put things back together. I think he was essentially a stupid boy in love with a very flawed woman. Their heated argument that broke the window means nothing- there were probably hundreds of such incidents throughout Whitechapel/Spitalfields on any given night. I can't see any way that his frustrations with Mary make him go out and kill Polly Nicholls. Makes no sense to me at all.

[moonbegger]

Hello Harry , Yes I also read Dr Frederick Walkers dissertation on Barnett , its very well put together , and I think its the only one that has an answer to the odd similarity's regarding victims names .. something that has bugged me since day one . but I still think the fact that he was arrested at the time of the Miller's Court affair, and interrogated for four hours has got to go a long way to erase suspicion .. but yeah , pretty compelling article .

All victims, real and intended, are named Mary, Ann, or Mary Ann. Two are named Mary Ann Kelly. Recent genealogical evidence published in Ripperana suggests that "Ann" was Mary Kelly's real middle name, and not an alias. Only Barnett is likely to have known this at the time. And, added to the coincidence of the addresses, the coincidence of the names suggests that somebody was obsessed with "Mary Ann Kelly, the Dorset Street whore," killing her again and again, until he finally killed the real one, and then stopped.

cheers
Moonbegger

[GUT]

G'day Pinkmoon

Hi gut,These murders went far and beyond simple murder by mutilating his victims our killer was greatly increasing his chances of been caught this theory about Mr Barnet simple dosnt wash.when people keep mentioning the word witness we never seem to take into account the lighting conditions and the time the so called witnesses had to view our killer I don't really think any suspect can be ruled out purely because he dosnt tally with a description ......except for the elephant man and the lost tribe of American Indians theory.

But wasn't the Elephant Man a local? ...