Convince me that it wasn't Barnett

[Sally]

Hello, Eighty-Eighter

Welcome to the boards

I'm with you on Barnett - there is nothing whatever to suggest that he was involved in Kelly's murder or that of anybody else, for that matter.

[eighty-eighter]

His character doesn't fit for me.

First of all hello everybody this is my first posting.

I can completely understand where Bruce Paley is coming from in his book "Jack the Ripper: The Simple Truth". Yes Barnett had a massive connection with Kelly and it was only natural that the police should suspect him first. Though we have to remember that after 4 hours or so they released him and he was apparently no longer a suspect for the Whitechapel killings. Why? Did he provide one or more alibi(s) for the other murder(s) that we don't know about?
But for me the real killer (excuse the pun) was the treatment of Kelly's body after the slaying. Yes I could understand a simple crime of passion under the circumstances which Barnett was going through, I could even stretch to him cutting her throat whilst holding the sheet over her face, but the hours of dedicated mutilation, the skinning, gutting, slicing off of breasts etc. followed by the almost ritualistic positioning of body parts around her butchered torso I simply cannot believe was the act of a mild mannered man whom was so devoted to her.
No that is simply too much for me, had he killed her in a fit of anger then he would have immediately felt deep remorse directly after in my opinion, and would NOT have sat down beside her and proceeded to carve her up like a slaughtered animal, and for quite some time too.
Remember this girl was the love of his life and he simply worshipped the ground that she stood on, regardless of whether she was prostituting or not. If he had of been the killer then he would have broken down after the murder and felt enormous remorse, he would have wept and left the scene straight away, perhaps even handing himself into the authorities, or in a worse case scenario even have taken his own life.
Instead the killer of Kelly continued his rage unabated even AFTER the killing. Consequently my feelings are that he had NO emotional connection to Kelly whatsoever.
Barnett also doesn't fit the characteristics of JtR; by all accounts Barnett was a mild, almost meek man with exemplary manners and who took care of himself very well, despite his lowly class - always appearing well groomed and dressed. For him to turn into a raging, psychotic maniac would be almost a real life Jekyll and Hyde. Always possible of course, but I'm currently not convinced that Barnett killed even Kelly, let alone the other victims.

[Batman]

If it was Barnett he would have to have gone against his natural instinct to 'cover' the body of someone he knew who he just killed to leave her exposed like that. Crimes of this nature where people know each other well usually involve covering the deceased by their killer with sheets or something like that (jacket etc.).

The treatment of Mary Kelly suggests the killer had absolutely no personal connection to her what-so-ever.

[The Good Michael]

Barnett theories continue to hold sway simply because they satisfy a need to make sense of Kelly's death; not because there is a strong case against him.

Yes, exactly like Hutchinson.

Mike

[miss marple]

Hear, hear. Excellent post Sally.
Miss Marple

[Sally]

I can understand why romanticising Kelly is attractive to some - by making her special in some way it's possible to imagine a resolution, which is more comforting than the thought that she was just another woman in unfortunate circumstances - one of countless in similar circumstances - who met her meaningless death in a horrific manner.

Thus, she can become a spy, or an activist; or an evil artist's muse; or a woman once of noble and important birth fallen on hard times - and on we go.

Barnett is absorbed into the romanticisation of Kelly by dubious virtue of having been cast as the jealous boyfriend killer by the writers of popular suspect books - a premise that is not well supported by the known facts. In order to get around the known facts - e.g. his lengthy interrogation at the time as an obvious suspect; his alibi - it has been necessary to resort to invention and create a Barnett who is little short of being an evil genius - another premise that is not supported by the known facts. Barnett theories continue to hold sway simply because they satisfy a need to make sense of Kelly's death; not because there is a strong case against him.

[Lechmere]

Well... I agree with him in as much as I suspect Mary Jeanette Kelly (or close variants) probably wasn't her real name.

[caz]

Have you turned into a daft old woman, Ed?

Evidently

Sorry, my mistake. You've turned into Mike Richards.

Love,

Caz
X

[Michael W Richards]

Surely the Kelly(sorry Marie Jeanette) killing must have been a crime of passion for this mystic Irish redhead, by someone who knew her and had a secret yearning for her singing, someone who unlocked the riddle of the barred door and gained secret admission while she slumbered in innocence.

.....I wonder why this murder attracted Members of Parliament, members of the Royal Irish Branch, the anti-terrorism body that kept tabs on Irish revolutionaries, and a Senior Post Office official to visit the murder scene at the height of the crowds and commotion?

What we can say at this time is that Mary Jeanette Kelly was likely NOT her real name, we do not know where she came from, nor do we know about any affiliation with groups or organizations that contained people willing to kill to further or protect their cause. That doesn't mean she didn't have a real name, it doesn't mean that she wasn't born in Ireland and had affinity with Irish Self Rule causes or Individuals, and it doesn't mean she didn't know some very dangerous people from her "work" or beliefs.

What is known is that whomever killed her found her in her room, entered without making appreciable noise or conversation. We know that when the lights was visible in her room, witnesses heard her singing. And we know that what was done to her in death bears little resemblance to any other alleged Ripper murder...clearly visible by the in situ photos.

None of this excuses Barnett, but it is clear that she likely knew the person who killed her by virtue of the murder location and the absence of any sign of forced entry.

Cheers

[Lechmere]

Evidently

[caz]

Surely the Kelly(sorry Marie Jeanette) killing must have been a crime of passion for this mystic Irish redhead, by someone who knew her and had a secret yearning for her singing, someone who unlocked the riddle of the barred door and gained secret admission while she slumbered in innocence.

Have you turned into a daft old woman, Ed?

Love it!

Love,

Caz
X

[Lechmere]

Surely the Kelly(sorry Marie Jeanette) killing must have been a crime of passion for this mystic Irish redhead, by someone who knew her and had a secret yearning for her singing, someone who unlocked the riddle of the barred door and gained secret admission while she slumbered in innocence.

[Lechmere]

Surely the Kelly killing must have been a crime of passion for this mystic Irish redhead, by someone who knew her and had a secret yearning for her singing, someone who unlocked the riddle of the barred door and gained secret admission while she slumbered in innocence.

[pinkmoon]

I find the copy cat theory equally implausible. If Joe wanted to make her murder look like another ripper killing and distance himself from the crime, he went a bloody funny way about it, killing her indoors, on the very bed they had shared together, instantly making himself a major suspect to be eliminated. He'd have been far safer following her outdoors and taking her by surprise down some dark street. Had the police found the slightest indication of anything incriminating (and my guess is they would have done if he killed her) he could easily have swung as Jack. Too good a copy cat job was as dangerous as not good enough.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi caz,why take a sledgehammer to break a walnut all he had to do was cut her throat slash her about a bit and then leave he certainly spent too much time with her and by spending so much time he would have increased his chances of been caught.He also ran a chance of someone seeing him entering and leaving a room where he lived for a while and the other people who lived near by might well have recognised him very risky indeed.

[caz]

I find the copy cat theory equally implausible. If Joe wanted to make her murder look like another ripper killing and distance himself from the crime, he went a bloody funny way about it, killing her indoors, on the very bed they had shared together, instantly making himself a major suspect to be eliminated. He'd have been far safer following her outdoors and taking her by surprise down some dark street. Had the police found the slightest indication of anything incriminating (and my guess is they would have done if he killed her) he could easily have swung as Jack. Too good a copy cat job was as dangerous as not good enough.

Love,

Caz
X