The broken window

[Wickerman]

Ahh but packer and schwartz are the clear outstanding people to call so what reason do you suggest the coroner would have NOT to call them if the details had been passed to him. I just can't see that they were tbh

I don't have a reason for not calling Schwartz, I would have called him.
We might concede that our knowledge of events is not complete.

As for 11.30 being the problem...I agree, only Moore knows the answer to this

The changes introduced to Packer's statement did not come from the press account. The most likely source is Packer himself, which suggests he was brought in to make a statement to police.
His previous statement was given to Sergt. White at his own home.

I do think the police will bring him in to explain why he first told police he saw nothing & no-one, but then revised it to include a man & woman.
Reasonably then, this is why Packer was not called to the inquest.

The result of Packer making two statements that differ is Swanson's dismissive account in his Oct. 19th report.

[Simon Wood]

Hi packers stem,

Just so I understand.

You're suggesting that Elizabeth Stride had been mistaken for Elizabeth Long who had seen the Ripper with Annie Chapman?

I agree with you about the similarity of names—Liz Long and Long Liz—but were there any physical similarities between the two women to account for such a terrible mistake?

Regards,

Simon

[GUT]

Hi packers stem,

Packer and Schwartz were not called to the inquest because their testimony would have given the lie to the "double event."

Regards,

Simon

So it was all a great big cover up by police and the corroner?

[packers stem]

Hi packers stem,

Could you expand a little.

I don't completely understand your point.

Thanks.

Regards,

Simon

Elizabeth Long had been in the press and inquest by this point.At this time she was the only person who we know of who could possibly testify against someone seen with a ripper victim.
Has just always seemed a bit of a coincidence Liz long and long liz.... Like I said just a stab the in the dark really,just that I'm not a lover of coincidence

[Simon Wood]

Hi packers stem,

Could you expand a little.

I don't completely understand your point.

Thanks.

Regards,

Simon

[packers stem]

Hi packers stem,

Packer and Schwartz were not called to the inquest because their testimony would have given the lie to the "double event."

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon
I've always suspected that stride was just a mistaken identity of long liz/Liz long and just an attempt to silence a witness so a double event of sorts but not as most understand it but.... It's just a stab in the dark really.The killing of stride is very different and struck me as a sort of neccessity on the way to the real event

[Simon Wood]

Hi packers stem,

Packer and Schwartz were not called to the inquest because their testimony would have given the lie to the "double event."

Regards,

Simon

[packers stem]

How so?
The two earliest reports tend to agree. If you read the Evening News of 4th Oct. and then Serg. White's police report of the same date, they do not contradict each other.
Yes, the 11:30 time is a problem, but both earlier reports indicate 12:30, or close to.

It is the changes to the police report that cause all the problems.




The police are not in control of which statements the coroner chooses.

Ahh but packer and schwartz are the clear outstanding people to call so what reason do you suggest the coroner would have NOT to call them if the details had been passed to him. I just can't see that they were tbh

As for 11.30 being the problem...I agree, only Moore knows the answer to this

[Wickerman]

Thus proving the 11.30 time to be taken by Moore to be unreliable
1-0 to the press

How so?
The two earliest reports tend to agree. If you read the Evening News of 4th Oct. and then Serg. White's police report of the same date, they do not contradict each other.
Yes, the 11:30 time is a problem, but both earlier reports indicate 12:30, or close to.

It is the changes to the police report that cause all the problems.

What!! The coroner doesn't interview people house to house.The details of witnesses have to come to the coroner from somewhere

The police are not in control of which statements the coroner chooses.

[curious4]

Many old pipe smokers still do.

Hello GUT

Yes, then there was a lot of puffing and blowing and pushing the tobacco down with the thumb and getting it to draw properly. I remember it well :-D! Actually quite liked the smell of a pipe.


C4

[GUT]

As I remember people used to use a penknife or something to scrape out the bowl of the pipe before filling it.

C4

Many old pipe smokers still do.

[packers stem]

Agreed, we don't.
But the initial times Packer gave for the couple being opposite Dutfields Yard at 12:30 were corroborated by PC Smith, even to the detail of carrying a package of some description.

Thus proving the 11.30 time to be taken by Moore to be unreliable
1-0 to the press

Why blame the police for a decision made by the Coroner?
The police didn't choose who appeared at the inquest, they had no control over that.

What!! The coroner doesn't interview people house to house.The details of witnesses have to come to the coroner from somewhere

[packers stem]

Hi Gwyneth.

Well, you could read it that way so long as you are comfortable with Swanson deliberately omitting, or just forgetting to include, the 2nd man shouting at, and then chasing Schwartz with a knife, in a report to his superior.

Remembering to include an inconsequential pipe, but forgetting to include the incriminating knife?

Swanson:Are you sure it was a knife?
Hungarian interpreter: Yes,he said a knife.
Swanson:But by saying that ,you're saying there's two men?
Hungarian:Yes,2 men .One chased him with the knife
Swanson:Could it not be something that looks like a knife? A pipe perhaps?
Yes ,i think it may be a pipe
Hungarian:Well....a metal pipe?
Swanson:I said pipe didn't I ?
Swanson:Who chases someone with a pipe? Not much point in you attending the inquest then....we move on


Sounds likely to me

[Wickerman]

This is the crux of the problem Wickerman
Packer and Schwartz were both deemed important enough to be interviewed at a high level(i believe it was Moore in Packers case)
We don't know why he altered the time!!!

Agreed, we don't.
But the initial times Packer gave for the couple being opposite Dutfields Yard at 12:30 were corroborated by PC Smith, even to the detail of carrying a package of some description.

2 people in the Stride case actually saw something.They were not called to inquest.Anyone who actually saw nothing at all was happily called.
Sorry but i take anything from top with a huge bucket of salt in the whole mystery.

Why blame the police for a decision made by the Coroner?
The police didn't choose who appeared at the inquest, they had no control over that.

[curious4]

Hi Gwyneth.

Well, you could read it that way so long as you are comfortable with Swanson deliberately omitting, or just forgetting to include, the 2nd man shouting at, and then chasing Schwartz with a knife, in a report to his superior.

Remembering to include an inconsequential pipe, but forgetting to include the incriminating knife?

Hello Jon

Aha! I get your point!

Best wishes
Gwyneth