Broad Shoulders, Elizabeth's Killer ?

[Sunny Delight]

Mortimer doesn't need to be lying, mistaken is good enough. Lying, in most cases, requires motive. We know of no motive for her to lie.

That aside, the point here, as I see it is, Schwartz claims BS-man was staggering ahead of him, while Mortimer heard measured footsteps.
Measured footsteps & staggering are not the same.

BS-man walked down to the gateway, but we have no evidence which way he left.
Likewise, Parcelman was last seen crossing the road to the gateway, but we have no evidence which way he left.
Parcel-man isn't "inserted", he was there, seen by at least two witnesses, whereas only one witness saw BS-man.

You seem to be satisfied that BS-man is a legitimate suspect, but on the same evidence you reject Parcel-man being a legitimate suspect.
The police regarded both as legitimate suspects.

If, in your opinion, Parcel-man is an "insert" when we speculate how he left, then BS-man is also an "insert" for precisely the same reason.
No-one saw either of them leave.

I am stating that the man with the parcel was not seen by Schwartz- who seemed to have an unobstructed view of both BS man and Stride. You suggest he was hidden in the darkness of Dutfield's Yard. We can't rule it out because, well how can we? Anyone can suggest that someone was hidden in the darkness. I say Schwartz didn't see him- you reply well he was hidden in the darkness. How can one refute that?

The bottom line is that going on what we have- Schwartz places 4 people on the street at 12:45am. Those are himself, BS man, Pipeman and Elizabeth Stride. Pipeman and Schwartz go in the opposite direction of Mortimer's house. It is impossible for it to have been Stride. The only other possibility based on the one eyewitness statement we have is that BS man passed Mortimer's house on the way back up Berner Street. Mortimer stands at her door for ten minutes from shortly after 12:45am and is co-orborated by Leon Goldstein who she sees at 12:55am. She saw no one else in that ten minute period. She saw no one else in my estimation because Stride had been killed already.

[The Rookie Detective]

Chris.
The press account reads as if BS-man walked down Berner St.

When he (Schwartz) came homewards about a quarter before one he first walked down Berner-street to see if his wife had moved. As he turned the corner from Commercial-road he noticed some distance in front of him a man walking as if partially intoxicated. He walked on behind him, and presently he noticed a woman standing in the entrance to the alley way where the body was afterwards found.

This is my reason for not accepting BS-man could be Parcel-man - they came from opposite directions.

Jon S.

Ah, but my suggestion is that moments before Schwartz turned that corner into Berner Street, Bs Man was walking away from Stride's location heading north, but then stopped before he got as far as Mortimer's door and then turned around to walk back towards Stride with the intent of attacking her, at the very moment that Schwartz turned the corner.

And so from Schwartz's perspective, he only sees Bs Man walking towards Stride.

My argument is that Bs man had previously interacted with Stride, but after rejecting him he walks away from her and heads North, but then turns around to go back and attack her

Mortimer then hears Schwartz walk past her door just a few moments before the assault takes place.

[Wickerman]

I am stating that the man with the parcel was not seen by Schwartz- who seemed to have an unobstructed view of both BS man and Stride. You suggest he was hidden in the darkness of Dutfield's Yard. We can't rule it out because, well how can we? Anyone can suggest that someone was hidden in the darkness. I say Schwartz didn't see him- you reply well he was hidden in the darkness. How can one refute that?

I'm well aware how tenuous the suggestion is, but we need a reason for Stride standing in an alleyway alone, when every time she has been seen she was with a man.
Certainly she could have stood there alone listening to singing, it's just more acceptable to have her with a man than stood alone down a backstreet.

The fact no-one saw the man can be accounted for due to the darkness of the shadows directly behind (or in front) of Stride.
We don't know which way she was facing, but if BS-man tried to turn her around, as we read in Swanson's notes, then she was facing the darkness, which can be justified if she was talking to a man in the shadows.
These assumptions are not unreasonable.

The bottom line is that going on what we have- Schwartz places 4 people on the street at 12:45am....

Yes, but you limit yourself to Schwartz, there is more to this story than what Schwartz claims to have seen.

[Wickerman]

Ah, but my suggestion is that moments before Schwartz turned that corner into Berner Street, Bs Man was walking away from Stride's location heading north, but then stopped before he got as far as Mortimer's door and then turned around to walk back towards Stride with the intent of attacking her, at the very moment that Schwartz turned the corner.

And so from Schwartz's perspective, he only sees Bs Man walking towards Stride.

My argument is that Bs man had previously interacted with Stride, but after rejecting him he walks away from her and heads North, but then turns around to go back and attack her

Mortimer then hears Schwartz walk past her door just a few moments before the assault takes place.

Ok, I guess I didn't grasp your complete argument.
I wonder what happened to the parcel, Schwartz never mentioned one.
At least my Parcel-man could have walked away from the crime eating grapes from the package, who'd suspect such a figure?

Do you have any concern with the differences between BS-man & Parcel-man?

Parcel-man
"At 12.35 a.m., 30th September, with Elizabeth Stride, found murdered at one a.m., same date, in Berner-street - A man, aged 28, height 5ft 8in, complexion dark, small dark moustache; dress, black diagonal coat, hard felt hat, collar and tie; respectable appearance; carried a parcel wrapped up in a newspaper.

BS-man
At 12.45 a.m., 30th, with same woman, in Berner-street, a man, aged about 30, height 5ft 5in, complexion fair, hair dark, small brown moustache, full face, broad shoulders; dress, dark jacket and trousers, black cap with peak.