The door, the key and the pickaxe

[Wickerman]

Then how did Barnett came to the conclusion it was easy to open, they lost the key.

What Barnett told the police came after the door had been forced.
Prior to Barnett being interviewed everybody seemed to think the door was locked with a key.

[Varqm]

What Barnett told the police came after the door had been forced.
Prior to Barnett being interviewed everybody seemed to think the door was locked with a key.

The argument was it could not be opened, it needed a key, but it did not, it could be opened manually.
The window was close they could reach, it was in arm's length.
https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...miller-s-court

Anyways moving on.

[Varqm]

Because after they lost the key they didnt lock the door handle, just used the spring latch when coming in and going out. Wick seems to think the door handle was locked, but there was no key to do so. The locked room declaration refers to a door locked by virtue of an internal lock mechanism, which was easily accessed via the window. Which Mary or Barnett likely didnt reveal to anyone.

So no-one needed a key to open that door. Wick would have you believe 2 1/2 hours isnt enough time for the people there to figure out what was what. And naive enough to believe that in that time no-one attempted entry, regardless of what is officially said.

Yes, as I believe. Or at least see that it was easily possible. After seeing Kelly that the door might have blood or fleshy parts in it could have put them off?

[Wickerman]

Because after they lost the key they didnt lock the door handle, just used the spring latch when coming in and going out. Wick seems to think the door handle was locked, but there was no key to do so.

...... Wick would have you believe 2 1/2 hours isnt enough time for the people there to figure out what was what. And naive enough to believe that in that time no-one attempted entry, regardless of what is officially said.

I'm pretty sure English is your first language, which is why I'm perplexed at why you struggle to understand.

No-one was looking for an alternate way in to the room. Can't you understand that?

Here's my challenge for you. - Just try find me one sentence written on this issue where anyone present in Millers Court says they were looking for another way in - Just ONE, Michael!

Everyone with a pulse should know by now that the authorities BELIEVED the door was locked, Not me, I know it wasn't locked with the key, but I wasn't there to tell them that. Neither was Barnett, apparently, otherwise the police would have used his method of entry.

Dr. Phillips is the one who stated the door was locked, that appears to be the origin of the theory.
However, it is hard to believe that neither McCarthy nor Beck didn't try to open the door at some point before Phillips arrived, so either one of them may truly be the origin of the idea.
It was also the opinion of Phillips that no entry should be permitted, neither Beck nor Abberline contested that suggestion.
Which is why NO-ONE was looking for an alternate method of entry.

Now, can both you (Michael) & Varqm just drop this false line of reasoning.

[Wickerman]

One of the minor details that has come to mind more than once, no-one mentions the door knob.
Cox saw Kelly enter her room with Blotchy, she apparently didn't need to reach through the window to do this.
Neither Bowyer, McCarthy nor Insp. Beck say they tried to open the door after knocking, each resolved to going to the window.

The lock that Bob Hinton originally brought to our attention did not have an exterior knob. Any knob used to open the door, as Bob pointed out, was fastened to the door, it didn't actually turn the lock, it was more like a simple round handle. Such a device could have been knocked off the door years before. Perhaps, there was no exterior knob, it was long gone, which would explain why Kelly apparently just pushed the door open. And why nobody tried to open the door after knocking.

I noticed Dave (DJA) once mentioned the internal photo of Kelly's room (taken from behind the bed) appeared to show a door knob, though the clarity is poor.
So perhaps one of those round brass fixtures on the lock has lost its knob?

[Varqm]

Kelly could have left the door unlocked or ajar. In the Kitty Ron(m)an case it was mentioned that some residents in the court left their doors unlocked.

If unlocked then the lock could be locked from inside or before closing the door by moving a knob - if the knob was not moved, it remained unlocked.
Or a key from outside would move\unlock the knob if the knob was moved in locked position.
I believe this was the kind of lock they had. A simple mechanism.

[Wickerman]

Kelly could have left the door unlocked or ajar. In the Kitty Ron(m)an case it was mentioned that some residents in the court left their doors unlocked.

You're right, it was noted somewhere in a book on the East end that it was customary for tenants of the lowest class to only lock their doors when they were home, more for personal protection than anything else. They left their doors unlocked while they were out, firstly because any furnishings belonged to the landlord anyway (as with McCarthy), and any possessions of any value were carried on their person. There was nothing of value in the room to steal.
Landlords didn't bother about keys, it was an unnecessary expense, when they were lost it didn't matter. For Barnett & Kelly to have had a key is more unusual, most tenants likely didn't have one.

[richardnunweek]

Hi I read somewhere that according to friends in the court, Mary left a piece of string on her doorknob if she was in , so anyone arriving would know if she was in , if there yes, and they could enter the door, if No she was out.

[mpriestnall]

"Jack the Ripper - The Definitive History" (Begg)

"...Kelly and Barnett had some time earlier lost the key to the room 'and since it has been lost they have put their hands through the broken window, and moved back the catch. It is quite easy' "

Source: "31. Inspector Abberline reported in Reynold's Newspaper, 18 November 1888."

[Meet Ze Monster]

"Jack the Ripper - The Definitive History" (Begg)

"...Kelly and Barnett had some time earlier lost the key to the room 'and since it has been lost they have put their hands through the broken window, and moved back the catch. It is quite easy' "

Source: "31. Inspector Abberline reported in Reynold's Newspaper, 18 November 1888."

Pretty conclusive there

[caz]

I'm pretty sure English is your first language, which is why I'm perplexed at why you struggle to understand.

No-one was looking for an alternate way in to the room. Can't you understand that?

Here's my challenge for you. - Just try find me one sentence written on this issue where anyone present in Millers Court says they were looking for another way in - Just ONE, Michael!

Everyone with a pulse should know by now that the authorities BELIEVED the door was locked, Not me, I know it wasn't locked with the key, but I wasn't there to tell them that. Neither was Barnett, apparently, otherwise the police would have used his method of entry.

Dr. Phillips is the one who stated the door was locked, that appears to be the origin of the theory.
However, it is hard to believe that neither McCarthy nor Beck didn't try to open the door at some point before Phillips arrived, so either one of them may truly be the origin of the idea.
It was also the opinion of Phillips that no entry should be permitted, neither Beck nor Abberline contested that suggestion.
Which is why NO-ONE was looking for an alternate method of entry.

Now, can both you (Michael) & Varqm just drop this false line of reasoning.

I thought you made this plain the first time you explained it, Jon.

Some posters just don't bother to read carefully, and then imagine you are claiming something that you are not, which then allows them to cling on to whatever fantasy they wish to believe in.

McCarthy would have known that his rooms had keys, so if he didn't know that Kelly's key had been lost, he might have assumed the killer had used it to lock the door when he left, which would have left it unable to be opened from either side without the key, making it necessary to use force.

It may not have occurred to anyone but Joe Barnett, who knew the key was lost, that the door could only now be locked to those on the outside, but could be unlocked without a key from the inside, by reaching through the window, which is what he had to do on occasions when either he or Kelly had forgotten to leave it on the latch on their way out. I doubt Kelly would have been happy risking her arms on that broken glass, and there wasn't much in there worth stealing, so after Barnett moved out she was probably more careful to leave it on the latch when she went out, only locking herself in on her return.

Love,

Caz
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