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  • The Pubs

    If the pub is a central point of where the Ripper met his victims, pardon my ignorance here, but my first question is: How popular were the pubs the victims frequented by lower class vs. more upper? Was it likely to see a more upper class patron in them or was it mainly a common folks types of places? Secondly, were these pubs places for people that would travel? Meaning, today it wouldn't be uncommon, if a trucker were doing murders, that the victims would be found along the trucker's route...how likely is that?

  • #2
    Interesting question. I think in Victorian times it wasn't uncommon for more upper class people to sometimes go "slumming" into the poorer areas of the city. Almost always men, as they had more freedom, of course. I wonder if they
    would disguise their status by wearing middle-class clothing?

    The specific pubs were probably lower class and in keeping with their neighborhoods. I get the feeling from reading newspaper accounts that they were frequented by all types: workers, students, laborers, idlers, women, everyone.
    Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
    ---------------
    Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
    ---------------

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
      Interesting question. I think in Victorian times it wasn't uncommon for more upper class people to sometimes go "slumming" into the poorer areas of the city. Almost always men, as they had more freedom, of course. I wonder if they
      would disguise their status by wearing middle-class clothing?

      The specific pubs were probably lower class and in keeping with their neighborhoods. I get the feeling from reading newspaper accounts that they were frequented by all types: workers, students, laborers, idlers, women, everyone.
      ah ok I know the Ten Bells still stands, is that literally the original site of the pub or no? Are there any other pubs from that era still around?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by clark2710 View Post

        ah ok I know the Ten Bells still stands, is that literally the original site of the pub or no? Are there any other pubs from that era still around?
        Yes the original Ten Bells has many original features inside ! Many original pubs from 1888 still stand many have been converted to flats -dwellings shall list them for you later

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Christian View Post

          Yes the original Ten Bells has many original features inside ! Many original pubs from 1888 still stand many have been converted to flats -dwellings shall list them for you later
          Covid permitting, I'm planning an East End pub crawl later this year / early next year so I'll be keeping an eye out for your list when it appears too, Christian!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Christian View Post

            Yes the original Ten Bells has many original features inside ! Many original pubs from 1888 still stand many have been converted to flats -dwellings shall list them for you later
            Thank you

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by clark2710 View Post
              If the pub is a central point of where the Ripper met his victims, pardon my ignorance here, but my first question is: How popular were the pubs the victims frequented by lower class vs. more upper? Was it likely to see a more upper class patron in them or was it mainly a common folks types of places? Secondly, were these pubs places for people that would travel? Meaning, today it wouldn't be uncommon, if a trucker were doing murders, that the victims would be found along the trucker's route...how likely is that?
              The impression of the local pubs in the vicinity of Whitechapel/Spitalfields I have from reading various materials on the case is that they were typical East End boozers. Locals pubs where you would always bump into the same faces. Like Pcdunn said frequented by local residents, workers, prostitutes, lodging house occupants, criminals, itinerants and of course the odd outside visitor here or there from other parts of London. Not forgetting the sailors from the docks of course!

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              • #8
                The sheer volume of pubs in those days versus today is a vast difference. Most would move around the pubs after a couple of drinks. The concept of a local is something that probably came later. Most traffic in and out of Whitechapel was of a transient nature and that would have been reflected in the pubs. I do not doubt some people (like today) would religiously visit just a single pub as it was their favourite, but my feeling is people were constantly moving around.
                "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
                - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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                • #9
                  Yes, poor people moved much more often than in Victorian times than now. Job losses, rent arrears, dodging creditors or just impulse caused them to change lodgings frequently, and they would then be in a different neighborhood with a different pub.
                  Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                  ---------------
                  Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                  ---------------

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ms Diddles View Post

                    Covid permitting, I'm planning an East End pub crawl later this year / early next year so I'll be keeping an eye out for your list when it appears too, Christian!
                    indeed can’t wait for pubs to proper re open!!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ms Diddles View Post

                      Covid permitting, I'm planning an East End pub crawl later this year / early next year so I'll be keeping an eye out for your list when it appears too, Christian!
                      The Bricklayers arms still standing now converted to flats is on Settles Street
                      Princess Alice/City Darts on Commercial Street still a pub
                      Ten Bells
                      Frying Pan Thrawl Street now Indian restaurant
                      White Heart Whitechapel High Street still a pub
                      Queens Head Fashion Street now gallery coffee cafe
                      All these buildings are still standing and importance regarding the case! Been 3 years since I visited the east end life moves fast in London sure there are many more pubs still standing these are off top of my head hope it helps

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                      • #12
                        Hello Christian,

                        I can't remember. Does the Ten Bells play up its Ripper heritage or discourage it?

                        c.d.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Christian View Post

                          The Bricklayers arms still standing now converted to flats is on Settles Street
                          Princess Alice/City Darts on Commercial Street still a pub
                          Ten Bells
                          Frying Pan Thrawl Street now Indian restaurant
                          White Heart Whitechapel High Street still a pub
                          Queens Head Fashion Street now gallery coffee cafe
                          All these buildings are still standing and importance regarding the case! Been 3 years since I visited the east end life moves fast in London sure there are many more pubs still standing these are off top of my head hope it helps
                          That's brilliant!

                          Many thanks for that, Christian!

                          Am I correct in thinking that the White Hart on Whitechapel Rd is the one which George Chapman managed?

                          I'm thinking a couple of drinks in the Ten Bells, onto the White Hart then follow up with a curry in the old Frying Pan......!!!

                          Have you ever eaten in there?

                          If so, is it any good?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Christian View Post

                            indeed can’t wait for pubs to proper re open!!
                            Me too!!!!

                            I have an outside table booked for Saturday for drinks and pizza with my partner and two of our friends.

                            I am beyond excited....!!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ms Diddles View Post

                              That's brilliant!

                              Many thanks for that, Christian!

                              Am I correct in thinking that the White Hart on Whitechapel Rd is the one which George Chapman managed?

                              I'm thinking a couple of drinks in the Ten Bells, onto the White Hart then follow up with a curry in the old Frying Pan......!!!

                              Have you ever eaten in there?

                              If so, is it any good?
                              White Heart yes so the story goes!!
                              Frying pan-restaurant incredible!!

                              Comment

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