The apron was dropped...

[Michael W Richards]

NotBlamed. The specific location was well known to be surrounded by 95% or more immigrant Jews. I believe at least 1 International Club member lived there at that time. The club is one of many throughout the greater Met that are known to be operated and populated by Socialist immigrant jews, who...as in the case of Berner Street, were also considered to be Anarchists. In a letter to Woolf Wess William Morris declines an invitation to speak at that club because he felt their particular brand of Socialism ran too hot for his own tastes. Revolutionary types. Violent, Confrontational. Like was shown the following year when Louis and Issac were arrested in that same yard for attacking police with clubs.

The location is perfect for anti-Semitic rantings. I suspect what might have happened is that the killer went back out with that stained cloth, which he knew could be matched with the missing piece in Mitre Square, and planned to leave it somewhere to suggest Blame on the jews. I think he wrote the message, and I think he left the cloth as a signature of the only person in the world at that moment that knew he killed the woman in Mitre Square. He claimed that murder. He also suggested Jews should be blamed for this other 2 second-1 cut event earlier.

[caz]

So, Michael, where do you think the Mitre Square killer was when Stride was attacked and murdered, and in the immediate aftermath? He must have been out on the street and, by pure coincidence, in or pretty close to Berner Street himself, if he was able to gather all the details which you believe dictated his behaviour just over an hour later in Goulston Street, after killing Eddowes.

What would have made the club members instantly suspect [and rightly in your opinion], on finding Stride lying there, that one of their own had cut her throat, and only described it as "another murder" to try and put the blame onto the killer of Tabram, Nichols and Chapman? Nobody knew that yet another murder would be committed within the hour, just fifteen minutes' walk away, to support that description.

You seem to think that nobody could do or say anything at that time of night, without everyone within a mile of that club - including your Mitre Square killer - hearing all about it and correctly interpreting the events within mere minutes.

Either that, or your Mitre Square killer and the club members, were all psychic.

How does the timing of your theory work in the real world?

Love,

Caz
X

[NotBlamedForNothing]

NotBlamed. The specific location was well known to be surrounded by 95% or more immigrant Jews.

I recall 20% - will have to check on that.

I believe at least 1 International Club member lived there at that time. The club is one of many throughout the greater Met that are known to be operated and populated by Socialist immigrant jews, who...as in the case of Berner Street, were also considered to be Anarchists. In a letter to Woolf Wess William Morris declines an invitation to speak at that club because he felt their particular brand of Socialism ran too hot for his own tastes. Revolutionary types. Violent, Confrontational. Like was shown the following year when Louis and Issac were arrested in that same yard for attacking police with clubs.

All that's fine, but you need not just the area, not just the street, but the specific address to reach your Mitre Sq killer, real fast.
What do you suppose your man is doing at the time? He couldn't be at home with his feet up, watching The Bill, could he?
He must be out, possibly at a pub or beerhouse, to hear the news. Then what?

The location is perfect for anti-Semitic rantings.

Actually it isn't. In fact it would be a terrible choice.
Read this post by Chris Scott - it is obvious the conservative, practicing Jews in London, hated the Berner St club people.
Anyone who targeted the club would more likely be pro-Semitic than anti.

[Abby Normal]

It seems to me that the meaning of the GSG, whether or not relevant to the murders, is entirely dependent on the ethnic origin of the writer. If he or she was a Gentile then it is a vitriolic and sarcastic criticism; if, however, the writer was Jewish I would perceive the intent to be one of open defiance directed towards the Gentile majority.

hi bridewell
i once saw an expert on victorian language say the meaning should be interpreted-the jews wont take the blame for anything. and the open defiance interpretation from a jewish writer means you have to read the double negative as -will be blamed for something-ie the murders.

the double neg in the context it was written is almost certainly the common slang that is still common today. as in I dont know nothing. I didnt do nothing etc. of course the proper word should be "anything" (not nothing). so IMHO we should go with the common meaning and therefor the writer was probably a gentile trying to throw blame on the jews-as in they are responsible. and given the events that night with the ripper being seen by several jews I think adds greatly to this interpretation.
The police at the time certainly thought so too.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

the double neg in the context it was written is almost certainly the common slang that is still common today. as in I dont know nothing. I didnt do nothing etc. of course the proper word should be "anything" (not nothing). so IMHO we should go with the common meaning and therefor the writer was probably a gentile trying to throw blame on the jews-as in they are responsible.

How can "the Jews" be responsible for a murder?

I keep asking about this, but I can't get no satisfaction.

[caz]

I agree with Abby here. How usual would it be for someone to deface walls with messages of support for the people who live there?

Typically, the one doing the complaining would put his message right where the people he's complaining about will see it.

I also suspect that a Gentile Jack would not only have had a warped view of women, convincing himself that those who appeared to have low morals deserved all they got, but would also have been deeply prejudiced against all 'groups' of men or women who didn't share his view of the world, or were of a different class, ethnicity or religion.

Therefore I would find it hard to rule out that the killer wrote the message and was prejudiced against Jews in general. If he felt that they had spoiled his fun that night, this could have been his little bit of revenge, underlined by the apron piece to show that he had still won the day, and had even made the score two nil.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

How can "the Jews" be responsible for a murder?

I keep asking about this, but I can't get no satisfaction.

Responsible for the second murder that night, in the killer's warped mind, because the Jews at the club had put him off his 'stride' there?

'If only I had been left alone to mutilate the first one, I wouldn't have gone looking for another'?

We are talking about serial killers, who typically never take responsibility for their actions, but cast around for anyone else to blame.

Love,

Caz
X

[NotBlamedForNothing]

As in?...

I blame the Juwes for interrupting my grand work

What would be his motivation for saying that, but in a cryptic manner?
Why not put it more clearly? Like this...

number one squealed a bit couldn't finish straight off

[Abby Normal]

I agree with Abby here. How usual would it be for someone to deface walls with messages of support for the people who live there?

Typically, the one doing the complaining would put his message right where the people he's complaining about will see it.

I also suspect that a Gentile Jack would not only have had a warped view of women, convincing himself that those who appeared to have low morals deserved all they got, but would also have been deeply prejudiced against all 'groups' of men or women who didn't share his view of the world, or were of a different class, ethnicity or religion.

Therefore I would find it hard to rule out that the killer wrote the message and was prejudiced against Jews in general. If he felt that they had spoiled his fun that night, this could have been his little bit of revenge, underlined by the apron piece to show that he had still won the day, and had even made the score two nil.

Love,

Caz
X

bingo

[Abby Normal]

How can "the Jews" be responsible for a murder?

I keep asking about this, but I can't get no satisfaction.

they werent, but the ripper was trying to blame a jew/s. he was getting back at them for interupting him that night, throwing some blame there way. It wouldnt have been lost on him that a jew, or several of them would be going to police with his description. nor that one of the prevalent theories at the time was that the ripper was jewish.

what better way to make things difficult for everyone and obsfucate than tossing the word jew in a clue?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

they werent, but the ripper was trying to blame a jew/s. he was getting back at them for interupting him that night, throwing some blame there way. It wouldnt have been lost on him that a jew, or several of them would be going to police with his description. nor that one of the prevalent theories at the time was that the ripper was jewish.

Jack: The Juwes are the men to be blamed for interrupting my grand work
Society: Good on the Jews!

what better way to make things difficult for everyone and obsfucate than tossing the word jew in a clue?

So where does that leave your belief in the authenticity of the letters and postcard?
That is, who was responsible for the interruption, the Jews or the victim (by squealing)?

As for the interruption itself - what interruption? I see no specific signs of interruption.

[Michael W Richards]

So, Michael, where do you think the Mitre Square killer was when Stride was attacked and murdered, and in the immediate aftermath? He must have been out on the street and, by pure coincidence, in or pretty close to Berner Street himself, if he was able to gather all the details which you believe dictated his behaviour just over an hour later in Goulston Street, after killing Eddowes.

What would have made the club members instantly suspect [and rightly in your opinion], on finding Stride lying there, that one of their own had cut her throat, and only described it as "another murder" to try and put the blame onto the killer of Tabram, Nichols and Chapman? Nobody knew that yet another murder would be committed within the hour, just fifteen minutes' walk away, to support that description.

You seem to think that nobody could do or say anything at that time of night, without everyone within a mile of that club - including your Mitre Square killer - hearing all about it and correctly interpreting the events within mere minutes.

Either that, or your Mitre Square killer and the club members, were all psychic.

How does the timing of your theory work in the real world?

Love,

Caz
X

Hi Caz,

I believe it quite conceivable that the killer in Mitre Square, during the large gap in time from murder to apron "dropping"..some 70 minutes perhaps, he might have heard street commotion. Its over an hour since that murder, and he may have gone to the East End to drop off his take away items. Not far fetched at all really. This may have even spurred him on to going back out at all. Who knows. I dont believe he went out and happened upon a message he might have agreed with...the interpretation of this GSG is probably blurry to the differences in the common speech of the day, I believe he used the entranceway as a signpost suggesting Jews were to blame for things going wrong in the city. Anti Semitic, for sure, but its also a hint why the kill in Berner Street doesnt resemble a kill like Jack is profiled by. Murder wasnt his bag, he just committed one. Hate was his thing. A Thug...who killed Liz in a split second of anger and thought little about killing some worthless street woman. The Mitre Square killer called him out on it, assuming perhaps quite correctly that since its almost certain the killer was on those grounds when Liz came in, he was probably a Jew too.

For me, I think it might be a hired Thug as security, he neednt be Jewish at all, and he was a little intoxicated and easily riled.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

I dont believe he went out and happened upon a message he might have agreed with...the interpretation of this GSG is probably blurry to the differences in the common speech of the day, I believe he used the entranceway as a signpost suggesting Jews were to blame for things going wrong in the city. Anti Semitic, for sure, but its also a hint why the kill in Berner Street doesnt resemble a kill like Jack is profiled by.

In #459, you said...

I have suggested numerous times that with the proper context...the location, the Jews blaming Jack for a murder that night, the apron section..this isnt such a complex riddle. Its being made so by improper context.

Not quite sure what your position is. Are you?

[Michael W Richards]

In #459, you said...

I have suggested numerous times that with the proper context...the location, the Jews blaming Jack for a murder that night, the apron section..this isnt such a complex riddle. Its being made so by improper context.

Not quite sure what your position is. Are you?

The Jews initially tried to "blame" a killer at large for the murder on their property, the Mitre Square killer then "blamed" the Jews for that murder and suggested they were evading Blame. The issue of Blame may be larger than for just this instance to the author...I suggest that punctuating a message like that with the cloth placed under it in the entraceway to model homes almost exclusively populated by Immigrant Jews suggests an Anti-Semitic tint overall.

[Michael W Richards]

So its understood, I dont yet believe the man who killed in Mitre Square was the same man that killed Annie or Polly, so..

Forget to mention to Caz, I believe Kate agreed to meet someone outside Mitre Square that night. Might have been midnight, before she found herself in jail. So he is waiting for her...is he part of the group thats breaking into the Post Office just around the corner that weekend? Maybe. But he is there to shut her up. And mark her for her perceived betrayal.