What did Jack the Ripper eat?

[Grim]

You mean the logical attitude based on reason and common sense? Yeah let's all refrain from that. Stupidity is much more fun.

If you do not know what he ate then why are you bothering posting here?

[Supe]

Grim old chap, since you clearly don't know what he ate either (unless your question is some sort of conundrum for which you have a witty answer) what are you doing posting here?

Don.

[The Good Michael]

Don,

I think Grim is hearkening back to the belief by a few people that the Salem hysteria was caused by ergot poisoning and that Jacky, by eating contaminated bread, could have hallucinated and gone whacko like the salem girls. I don't believe in the ergot poisoning, by the way, and believe the Salem hysteria had to do with using a belief in the devil to take the neighbors' lands.

Grim can correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers,

Mike

[Supe]

Mike,

I think Grim is hearkening back to the belief by a few people that the Salem hysteria was caused by ergot poisoning

Oh yes, I quite remember that theory as it came out while I was in grad school and, coincidently, specializing in 17th C New England social history. As it is, the reasons advanced for the witch mania in Salem are a great mirror of each generation's concerns. Naturally, in the 70s, some enterprising young historians would find drugs as the cause, even as a few years before there was the "generational clash" theory. Last such I noted was a few years ago when the thesis was put forth that it was post-traumartic stress due to a rather severe Indian uprising in Maine from which a couple of the girls had returned to Salem. No doubt someone is already pondering a "financial crisis" theory for the events.

Grim can correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm sure he will.

Don.

[Grim]

Mike,

I think Grim is hearkening back to the belief by a few people that the Salem hysteria was caused by ergot poisoning

Oh yes, I quite remember that theory as it came out while I was in grad school and, coincidently, specializing in 17th C New England social history. As it is, the reasons advanced for the witch mania in Salem are a great mirror of each generation's concerns. Naturally, in the 70s, some enterprising young historians would find drugs as the cause, even as a few years before there was the "generational clash" theory. Last such I noted was a few years ago when the thesis was put forth that it was post-traumartic stress due to a rather severe Indian uprising in Maine from which a couple of the girls had returned to Salem. No doubt someone is already pondering a "financial crisis" theory for the events.

Grim can correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm sure he will.

Don.

This is something to the effect of what I was thinking, however also I was wondering if he wasn't getting enough vegetables in his diet and perhaps the reason why no body heard from him again was because he died of malnutrition or scurvy.

Perhaps the removal of the organs was also a method he used to eat these said organs and possibly he felt that by eating these organs these woman became a part of him.

Since many of the prostitutes of these times would have had diseases another possibility is that by eating these organs he contracted a deadly disease and died after the MJK killing.

[Jane Coram]

Hi Grim,

The problem is that you've really asked a question that can't be answered.

The real trouble is that we don't know what class Jack came from. If he were middle classed then his diet would be dramatically different from that of a working man at the time and even more removed from the diet of the lower working classes that frequented the doss houses and workhouses.

So basically, you would have to know who Jack was before you could answer the question.

If he were middle class, his diet would be pretty well balanced and not that far removed from good home cooking today in the UK or the US.

If he were working class, but in a good steady job or trade, his diet wouldn't be that bad, although he would get cheaper cuts of meat and more vegetables, particularly potatoes to make it go further. His diet would have been reasonable though and it's unlikely he would have suffered from malnutrition.

If he were in the lowest rungs of the ladder, living on the streets and in doss houses, his diet would have been very poor, irregular, consisting mainly of potatoes, bread and very cheap food sold on the streets and in the markets. It's unlikely he would have got scurvy as potatoes and onions have a lot of vitamin c and his diet would have been mainly those anyway, oranges were cheap too........but he probably didn't eat that much meat, except in pies, although he might have had a fair bit of fish as that was readily sold on the streets and quite cheap. His health would almost certainly have suffered from his poor diet though and malnutrition amongst this class was very common indeed, if not normal.

What did Jack the Ripper eat? Basically it could have been anything.

Jane

xxxx

[Grim]

Thanks Jane!

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Since many of the prostitutes of these times would have had diseases another possibility is that by eating these organs he contracted a deadly disease and died after the MJK killing.

That's not a bad theory and quite plausible, assuming Jack did indeed eat the stuff he yanked out of the victims' guts. Especially if he ate Eddowes' kidney, wasn't that thing supposed to be contaminated with Bright's disease?

[cbenee]

If you don't know what he ate then please refrain from this sort of attitude.

So you'll be deleting the thread then as NOBODY knows what he ate?

[Grim]

So you'll be deleting the thread then as NOBODY knows what he ate?

Well then according to your logic we should delete this entire site since nobody knows who JTR was

[perrymason]

Janes correct...pointing out that there is no way we can at this point even begin to guess at who he was...let alone what he ate.

If he was a poor local, he likely ate gruel like oatmeal at a lodging house kitchen, a fair bit of fish as is or in chowders, and bread, and maybe boiled potatoes on a good week...maybe occassionally kidneys or livers too.

Theres probably very little chance that even if Jack did write From Hell that he did in fact eat the missing portion of the kidney that had been "trimmed up" and sent to Lusk. The organ had visual indications of disease in the form of Nephritis...had Jack been a Butcher, Hunter, surgeon or Animal torturer he would have seen healthy organs before to compare that one with. Kates remaining organ was not blood tested in order to be declared with Brights disease...it was visually inspected.

If the guy knew what insides looked like...and I believe he did, I dont think he would have taken a diseased looking kidney to eat while he was there in Mitre Square. Isnt the liver quite a bit larger than a kidney? Why not pop that out instead?

I personally dont believe he was at the "buffet table" when killing women anyway...there is no evidence that he ate anything other than the reference in a letter and small package addressed to Lusk...from a nameless killer...just "Catch me when you can Mishter Lusk".

Best regards all.

[Jane Coram]

Thanks for pointing that out Michael........I almost mentioned it, but the post was getting too long and I didn't want you all dozing off. Lol.

Just as an aside - although it's still on topic - if the lower ranks did eat meat it was almost exclusively offal - that is all the bits the animal didn't even know it had.

Things like tripe (stomach lining, which is white and spongy), liver, kidneys, heart, tongue and even brain. Whole sheeps heads would be cooked and sold as is, although they did take the eyes out and skin them.

When I was a kid, there was an offal shop in Dalston which I'd go to get something for dinner and the sheeps heads would all be in the window steaming away, and surprisingly they smelt really quite good. The other things which were very often eaten were pigs trotters, and cow heel. A favourite dish was tripe and cowheel.

The lungs - called 'lights' (not sure if it's spelt like that or 'lites') were usually sold as cat and dog food. A man would come around with a cart selling all the really grim bits of stuff that were left over for the cats and dogs, although I daresay that for the really poor in 1888 a lot of it would have ended up on a plate for human consumption.

If Jack were in this class of people, he would certainly have eaten offal on a regular basis, and I would hazard a guess that whoever wrote the Lusk letter, whether Jack or not, or whatever class he came from, he had eaten kidney at some time or other, although hopefully not human!

Hugs

Jane

xxxxxx

[Sam Flynn]

Kates remaining organ was not blood tested in order to be declared with Brights disease...it was visually inspected.

I very much doubt that it was, Mike, unless they dug her up. Eddowes was buried on the 8th October, whereas Lusk didn't receive the kidney until eight days later. Besides, Eddowes' Bright's disease diagnosis is almost certainly a spurious bit of puff and bluster, concocted by the inventive mind of Henry "Gurgling-plughole" Smith.

[perrymason]

I very much doubt that it was, Mike, unless they dug her up. Eddowes was buried on the 8th October, whereas Lusk didn't receive the kidney until eight days later. Besides, Eddowes' Bright's disease diagnosis is almost certainly a spurious bit of puff and bluster, concocted by the inventive mind of Henry "Gurgling-plughole" Smith.

Hi Sam,

I dont suggest they exhumed her amigo...she did have an autopsy, and there seems to be plenty of opinion that the kidney remaining in her showed signs of the disease that they later detect in the parcel contents, so I would imagine the opinions were formed when doing the autopsy...its one of the few details about the matter that suggests a possible connection to the murdered womans lost organ. That and its estimated time in "spirits".

That it is evident in the sample sent is one of the key elements to add authenticity.... to what is either a really elaborate hoax or a real communique. So it was visually evident,...and if Kate did have the condition which we all have been led to believe she was diagnosed with, her left kidney while still in her... would have had visual indications it was diseased.

Thats the reason I suggest if he knew a healthy organ from one that was not...visually...he wouldnt choose that organ to take and actually eat. But if you think about it.....if he did choose it because it was diseased...it might be because he intended to use that fact to authenticate a communique at some point....by providing a matching sample of the womans missing organ... just as his "apron section" links Goulston Street to Kates killer.

All the best Gareth.

[Grim]

If he was a poor local, he likely ate gruel like oatmeal at a lodging house kitchen, a fair bit of fish as is or in chowders, and bread, and maybe boiled potatoes on a good week...maybe occassionally kidneys or livers too.

Well that explains it then. If I was eating oatmeal every day I would be a homicidal maniac too.