Jack the ripper guided tours: money on the back of victims or is it for charities?

[Dan Norder]

A clue......he posted the usual,4 or 5 times,before he got the reaction he craved....

Congratulations,you provided it for him.

A bigger clue: Even someone purposefully saying ridiculous things to try get people to insult him is no justification for making offensive ethnic slurs, gay-bashing and so forth.

Either ignore the trolls or point out why what they're saying makes no sense. No one should use their bad behavior as an excuse to label all French / homosexuals / socialists / whatever as bad. There's just no excuse for that. It's worse than anything any French person here has done.

[Celesta]

Hi Mike,



Oh yes, I'd fergotten him....Sophie's mate!!!


ANNA.

Hi Anna,

I was thinking, at first, that it was more of the same. I'm not so sure right now.

Bestest,

Cel

[George Hutchinson]

Hi all. I was expecting trollness of the DY thread level when I came here as I've been sent PMs about this thread.

Actually, I have no issue with the initial posters question - as question it is, rather than a dumb opinion.

Firstly, income from Ripper tourism is indeed part of my income. My employer charges 7 pounds for each attendee. I get less than half of that, and many (most) tour guides get less than me because of the reputation I have. It is not a badly paid job, but it does not get one rich.

I have no qualms about how I conduct my work. Again and again people have told me mine is the only JTR tour they've done where I speak about the lives of the victims and don't use them simply as pawns in a game. I talk about the LVP and the poverty. It is not all blood and guts. If family members of victims are OK with what I do, and if Neal Sheldon himself has come on one of my tours and not expressed any dissatisfaction with how I present them, personally it doesn't matter to me what anyone else thinks.

PHILIP

[nicole]

Hi anna,

Oh no,not again.....they're back!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nicole....

A clue......he posted the usual,4 or 5 times,before he got the reaction he craved....

Congratulations,you provided it for him.

ANNA.

Are you saying I'm at fault here??

Let's get this clear.....Lionel HAS posted five times...on four different threads! I did not react to his posts at all. My perogative was to simply ignore him.

What got a reaction from me was the subsequent bigoted comments from the other posters.

If, as you claim, Lionel was craving a reaction, then Howard et al certainly provided him with one.

Any due congratlations should be reserved for them...not me.

sincerely
Nicole

[John Bennett]

A decent Ripper tour should be an education, albeit an entertaining education.

There are plenty of them and although I've never seen one that is a complete disaster, covering the conditions of the time, the victims as women who had better lives before their downfall and the way the investigation was conducted (and esentially failed) should be standard elements within the tour.

Schools do tours over here because it is part of history exam coursework on the Victorian era.

I would say it is a responsible tour guide's duty to pull 'Jack the Ripper' out of the sensational movie/fog/hat/glamorous prostitute/gothic self-indulgent mess that may well be perceived by those less-in-the-know.

How a guide gets paid (and of course they should) differs from company to company. But it is what they do that counts.

[Robert]

How can I put this? I do think there is room for just a little sensationalism, because this is how the crimes were perceived at the time, and this is the legend that was passed down the generations. At the time that Jack was at work, such crimes were comparatively rare, though not unprecedented. To some people, the killer was an almost supernatural phenomenon. Since then, of course, we have seen many worse killers, and we now try to classify Jack in one of the numerous pigeonholes containing hundreds of such killers. But at the time, people were terrified and not a little awestruck. So although the educational side is all very admirable, indeed essential, I think that if the tourists can be brought to feel something of the mystification, revulsion and fascination which his Victorian ancestors felt, then that too is a kind of education.

[John Bennett]

That's a fair comment Robert. And indeed, sometimes the realities need no embellishing to create an effect. The local fear after the Chapman murder for example.

[Sam Flynn]

Come now! Arthur wasn't exactly a peace lover

Leading one's people against the oppressor doesn't count, Mike

[The Good Michael]

Philip,

Just to piggyback onto the JTR tourism trade: Was there a time, or are there still times when the guides from the same and competing tours get together for a pint? I should think that with the questions from customers, the false beliefs customers must often convey, and the different opinions guides must have, along with the differing levels of guide ability and knowledge, there must be a book in it all somewhere. "Riding the Ripper: Confessions of a Tour Guide"

Cheers,

Mike

[Bob Hinton]

So..

What would our French friend call an undertaker? Definitely someone profiting from the dead.

All of history contains dead people is he saying that no one should teach history because of them?

The usual muddled thinking from a Socialist!

[Jeff Leahy]

Philip,

Just to piggyback onto the JTR tourism trade: Was there a time, or are there still times when the guides from the same and competing tours get together for a pint? I should think that with the questions from customers, the false beliefs customers must often convey, and the different opinions guides must have, along with the differing levels of guide ability and knowledge, there must be a book in it all somewhere. "Riding the Ripper: Confessions of a Tour Guide"

Cheers, Mike

I cant speak for Philip, Mike. But I understand that there is considerable rivalry between some tour companies in London. Though I think amoungst the more reputable JtR guides there is some camaraderie.

I dont know if anyone saw a new program on BBC 2 last night called something like 'True VICE' or 'Price of Vice'

That program opened with a JtR tour guide I did not recognise?

It had some interesting shoots of Gunthorpe street, the Ten Bells and Old Dorset Street. It spoke to some of the mordern prostitutes. Covered JtR briefly.

Pirate

[anna]

Hi all,
Firstly..Nobody wished to be offensive to this chap,Nicole and Dan.
People were posting with him,and noting his suggestions,and not ignoring him ...as always,the tolerant hosts of the jolly japes and ideas of the occassional "unusual" visitor,that arrives on Casebook from time to time.

I don't think offence was on people's minds,when posters quoted from one of our well-loved TV programmes.I would not have wished to have appeared Racist in any way towards him,and if anything offended him,I apologise...and I am sure others would wish to,too.

Not many newbies announce their sexual preference on their initial posts.
If anyone referred to this in any derrogatory manner,I was not aware of it personally.

I thought it was one of our old French aquaintances...I was rather hoping it was Philippe....and that he'd return with Kelly in tow,as I have a couple of nagging questions that I'd like to put to her.But I now don't think that is the case.
I don't think it's Sophie either...unless she wears a John Wayne outfit!!(see the link...wish I spoke fluent French,as I would have liked to read that site through).

I looked back on our friends posts,and what a suprise...there is a new revelation!
I quote:Some person with a pseudo of "le masque ecarlate"(scarlet mask!)promise revelations to be to come that will ruined previouses theoryes.The mask also said a prove will shown in some weeks time with not saying much more.He then goes on to ask:If anyone of you is in the know of this and what revelation is it.

And to answer Lionel,No...Lionel..I don't know about this revelation...but I bet I will!!!!!
Bestest,
ANNA

[The Good Michael]

The usual muddled thinking from a Socialist!

Hey Bob!

That's not really fair in my opinion. People should always question the motives of others, because too often, people don't stop to question themselves. Social responsibilty is something that has been sorely lacking in American politics and in unregulated, free market capitalism. I think these kinds of questions can give us all pause for self-reflection. Phillip as well as others have answered the question admirably, and that answering can also give the socialist pause for reflection.

Cheers,

Mike

[Lionel Jospin II]

Hi all,
Firstly..Nobody wished to be offensive to this chap,Nicole and Dan.
People were posting with him,and noting his suggestions,and not ignoring him ...as always,the tolerant hosts of the jolly japes and ideas of the occassional "unusual" visitor,that arrives on Casebook from time to time.

I don't think offence was on people's minds,when posters quoted from one of our well-loved TV programmes.I would not have wished to have appeared Racist in any way towards him,and if anything offended him,I apologise...and I am sure others would wish to,too.

Not many newbies announce their sexual preference on their initial posts.
If anyone referred to this in any derrogatory manner,I was not aware of it personally.

I thought it was one of our old French aquaintances...I was rather hoping it was Philippe....and that he'd return with Kelly in tow,as I have a couple of nagging questions that I'd like to put to her.But I now don't think that is the case.
I don't think it's Sophie either...unless she wears a John Wayne outfit!!(see the link...wish I spoke fluent French,as I would have liked to read that site through).

I looked back on our friends posts,and what a suprise...there is a new revelation!
I quote:Some person with a pseudo of "le masque ecarlate"(scarlet mask!)promise revelations to be to come that will ruined previouses theoryes.The mask also said a prove will shown in some weeks time with not saying much more.He then goes on to ask:If anyone of you is in the know of this and what revelation is it.

And to answer Lionel,No...Lionel..I don't know about this revelation...but I bet I will!!!!!
Bestest,
ANNA

Oh I detest the john wayne so very much : he was capital right wing and didn't like gay man like me and socialistes !!!

Thank you anna to have answer my question. i'm so deceipted not one else has

[Jeff Leahy]

I thought you'd gotten some fairly straight forward answers.

I don't think any British Socialist has anything against someone earning an honest living and the tour guides I know work very hard, in all weathers, have a family to support and a mortgage to pay, and suggesting that they are NOT working class, like the rest of us, is frankly in poor taste...

And i say that Sir as a big fan of the french and a person who has toured your wonderful country on many occasions.

If you wish to pick on someone i suggest you try Canary Walf or the City where there are hundreds of deserving cases.

Yours Pirate