Seaside Home?

[Bridewell]

Why Them?

Exactly, Caz. The bottom line though is the question of why either Schwartz or Lawende would have been staying in a police hospital when they weren't policemen which is something some people here seem to believe.

And the answer is probably that they wouldn't. Therefore, if there is any truth to the whole "Seaside Home" aspect, the witness is probably a policeman.

That would at least answer some questions:

Why was the ID staged at the Seaside Home?*
That's where the witness was.

Why wasn't the confrontation arranged at Leman Street or Commercial Road Police Station?
He might be recognised by other policemen.

Why was there an apparent covert element to this incident?
The witness was a disgraced police officer.

Why is there no official written record of this incident?
The witness was a disgraced police officer.

Why does DSS name the suspect but not the witness?
The witness was a disgraced police officer.

Why is the sentence "Nobody ever saw the Ripper unless it was the City PC who was (on) a beat near Mitre Square" included in the Lady Aberconway version of the MM, but omitted from the final draft?
The witness was a disgraced police officer.

Why is there (so I'm told) no record on his file of the reason for James Harvey's dismissal in July 1889?
It shamed the police service and had to be concealed.

Either the SM are nonsense or the witness was a police officer IMHO.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Cogidubnus]

James Harvey was a City of London policeman...which surely militates away from Brighton or Hove...and Swanson's familiar "Seaside Home" appelation...

Cheers

Dave

[Bridewell]

Which Seaside Home

James Harvey was a City of London policeman...which surely militates away from Brighton or Hove...and Swanson's familiar "Seaside Home" appelation...

Cheers

Dave

Hi Dave,

Wasn't it your good self who pointed out, in an earlier post, that the convalescent home used by the City of London Police was also at the seaside, just not at Brighton?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Cogidubnus]

Don't think it was me that mentioned it Bridewell, but I believe the City Police seaside home was in Dover....hmmm another long trek...

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

with difficulty...

So would we be contending that the "difficulty" lay in liaison between the Met and City forces rather than simply access?

Cheers

Dave

[Phil Carter]

Hi Phil,

What are the Swanson Marginalia, if not a hand-me-down story?

Some may consider them unreliable, but they do exist!

Regards, Bridewell.

Hello Bridewell,

A hand-me-down story? I seem to recall such stories told and passed on in written form to author Daniel Farson in written form about the other main Memorana suspect Druitt.
The 'East End murderer- I knew him for example about a man who claimed to have seen a document. Farson file containing the man's letter was 'lost'. In addition, a Mr Gould of Bexleyheath wrote to Farson with another story that seemingly linked Druitt to the WM. It seems the actual reference in this story had nothing to do with Druitt, but Deeming instead.

The two things that strike me here are firstly, that hand-me-down stories are ten-a-penny in Ripperology and secondly, if the Swanson hand-me-down story is to be taken seriously, then it is only fair that the contents are subjected to the same scrutiny as any other hand-me-down story.
That means it doesn't matter WHAT TITLE the writer has, WHO the writer is or how near the investigation the writer was, because these lines are PRIVATE, NOT official comments. Therefore it is the story NOT the person that should be the subject of focus.

As has been pointed out throughout this thread, the story has more holes in it than a fishing net.
This poster concludes that after 25 years, and not one iota of proof found or produced to corroberate this story, its believability is minimal, and with NO reference to Aaron Kosminski and no proven evidence that it refers to AARON at all, it is simply wrong for anyone to use this hand-me-down story to help prove the 'AARON Kosminski is Jack the Ripper' theory on this extremely (factually) dubious hand-me-down. IMHO.
In 1987 it was seen as important. 25 years later- it has been reduced to a 'ahh- but you cant prove it DIDNT happen' story. Why? Because NOTHING factually backs it up and there is iron clad official evidence to show NORMAL methodology used under such circumstances, WITH at least one xample that ticks the boxes.(Pizer)



Best wishes

Phil

[Cogidubnus]

As me old mum was apt to say..."blimey"

Dave

[Phil Carter]

As me old mum was apt to say..."blimey"

Dave

Hello Dave,

blimey would be right IF Harvey was 'also a Jew'.

I'll ask the obvious. Was he?

Best wishes

Pėl

[Bridewell]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridewell
Hi Phil,

What are the Swanson Marginalia, if not a hand-me-down story?

Some may consider them unreliable, but they do exist!

Regards, Bridewell.


A hand-me-down story? I seem to recall such stories told and passed on in written form to author Daniel Farson in written form about the other main Memorana suspect Druitt.

The two things that strike me here are firstly, that hand-me-down stories are ten-a-penny in Ripperology and secondly, if the Swanson hand-me-down story is to be taken seriously, then it is only fair that the contents are subjected to the same scrutiny as any other hand-me-down story.
That means it doesn't matter WHAT TITLE the writer has, WHO the writer is or how near the investigation the writer was, because these lines are PRIVATE, NOT official comments. Therefore it is the story NOT the person that should be the subject of focus.


Best wishes

Phil

Phil,

I didn't ask you to take it seriously. I merely said, in reply to your comment about the lack of hand-me-down stories, that the Swanson Marginalia might be considered to be such. You appear to agree with the only point I was trying to make.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Bridewell]

Hello Dave,

blimey would be right IF Harvey was 'also a Jew'.

I'll ask the obvious. Was he?

Best wishes

Pėl

He would be considered a Jew if his mother was Jewish. I don't know the answer to that one.

Regards, Bridewell.

[jason_c]

Hello Dave,

blimey would be right IF Harvey was 'also a Jew'.

I'll ask the obvious. Was he?

Best wishes

Pėl

Everything in my bones tells me not to believe in conspiracy theories, but:

What if the "fellow Jew" story was entirely concocted to hide the disgraced policeman? The fellow Jew not wishing to give evidence is a convenient excuse as to why no prosecution could take place. The police were unwilling to admit a mistake by publicly prosecuting, and this evidence coming out.

An excuse had to be found as to why no prosecution could occur. The unwilling Jewish witness is a perfect cover story. The policeman doesnt have to be jewish or even part Jewish.


The above is only a scenario, not my belief.

[robhouse]

The Morley House Seaside Convalescent Home for Working Men, which opened in 1883 in St Margaret’s Bay, near Dover, reserved a certain number of beds for members of the City of London Police force.

[Phil Carter]

Everything in my bones tells me not to believe in conspiracy theories, but:

What if the "fellow Jew" story was entirely concocted to hide the disgraced policeman? The fellow Jew not wishing to give evidence is a convenient excuse as to why no prosecution could take place. The police were unwilling to admit a mistake by publicly prosecuting, and this evidence coming out.

An excuse had to be found as to why no prosecution could occur. The unwilling Jewish witness is a perfect cover story. The policeman doesnt have to be jewish or even part Jewish.


The above is only a scenario, not my belief.

Hejo Jason,

Yes, it would explain much, I agree, but then one naturally asks for what earthly reason would the dismassal of Harvey be to warrant his dismissal papers being spirited away in the first place?
Shame on the name of the City Force could be anything, and it would be easy though unwise to connect the dismissal with his antecedants re the Eddowes scenario.

Just as a question ONLY- what was the date of the letter to City Police alleging connection between the Eddowes murder and a former City Policeman?
I think the letter is reproduced in 'Letters from Hell' if memory serves me correctly? I havent it handy at this moment.

Harvey was born, I believe, in 1855 and died in 1903.

Best wishes

Phėl

[lynn cates]

fib

Hello Bridewell. Very interesting theory.

I suppose it entails that Harvey fibbed about not seeing anyone?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

thinking

Hello (again) Bridewell.

"He would be considered a Jew if his mother was Jewish."

Perhaps, more to the point, "Did Anderson THINK him Jewish?"

Cheers.
LC