Why did Macnaghten deny Cutbush as a serious suspect?

[Stephen Thomas]

By the way, can anyone hazard a phonetic pronounciation of the name Macnaghten? Is it Mac-Nak-Ten, Mac-Norton, Mig-Nag-Den or what?

It would be pronounced Mack-Norton.

Modern day spelling would be MacNaughton or McNaughton.

Hope this helps.

[Sam Flynn]

By the way, can anyone hazard a phonetic pronounciation of the name Macnaghten? Is it Mac-Nak-Ten, Mac-Norton, Mig-Nag-Den or what?

muck-NOUGHT-n, I'd say.

[Mort Belfry]

Would Cutbush even have made an everlasting impression on us if Macnagthen didn't deny him?


By the way, can anyone hazard a phonetic pronounciation of the name Macnaghten? Is it Mac-Nak-Ten, Mac-Norton, Mig-Nag-Den or what?

[Cap'n Jack]

A red herring?
Pop over to the FBI thread for there is a shark there which will swallow all red herrings.

[Mitch Rowe]

I haven't seen anything in the recent information released from Broadmoor that convinces me that Cutbush might have been the Ripper.

But the Ripper was no foaming at the mouth lunatic - he was able to carry out a series of murders and escape without leaving a clue. Cutbush was a rather obvious head case.

Most likely the records will convince me otherwise. Schizophrenia is no laughing matter. Ive seen it first hand and its not what makes a Ripper.

Im in total agreement that JTR was somewhat more than a lunatic. In fact I believe he was alot more than that. And Cutbush seems like a total red herring.

[Robert]

Yes Chris, well, it seems to me that there are two possibilities here :

Either the Sun had no evidence of a Thomas/Supt Cutbush link, or it did, but declined to publish it or hint at it. The latter possibility would suggest that the Sun was not in the business of out and out sensationalism - I mean, Jack the Ripper a friend/nephew/what-have-you to a top policeman? What a godsend for a newspaper!

[Chris]

I don't think the Sun mentions this police uncle relationship, which one would have expected them to do if it were true.

But wouldn't it have been difficult to do that while preserving the anonymity of the suspect?

Perhaps this was the closest the Sun could come to mentioning the alleged relationship?
"Jack the Ripper has relatives; they are some of them in positions which would make them a target for the natural curiosity - for the unreasoning reprobation which would pursue any person even remotely connected with so hideous a monstrosity ..."

[Natalie Severn]

Robert

[Robert]

In other words, Nats, you think Macnaghten wasn't being quite straight on this.

[Natalie Severn]

It seems pretty obvious to me Robert that page after page of the report-Macnaghten"s 1894 memorandum- written when it was in the wake of the Sun"s revelations is concerned mainly to deflect this whole bothersome business of Jack the Ripper well away from Thomas Cutbush and his poor old Uncle ,Supt Charles Cutbush. So what we appear to get from Macnaghten,in the desperate need to name someone other than a Cutbush as Jack the Ripper,is him almost taking names out of a hat----any name remotely at hand -be the named one dead , alive or in the bin ,would do.
In his report, Macnaghten gets rather muddled over dates,suspects occupations and even the time when his suspect "disappears" from view., Hence we have first Druitt ,-but was he a doctor or was he a barrister or a teacher or all three or what? Was he forty or nearer thirty?A cricket playing batchelor of 29 with no known sexual relationships at all , - his family decided he was "sexually insane" [ mother had recently been in the bin] anyway obviously a very dangerous character-,Mac would have us believe, with sex on the brain, dead by his own hand ----clearly then a homicidal maniac ;
Next we have Kosminski -actually in the bin since __[---oh --er 1889? 1890? 1891 ?] but anyway Mac tells us he was obviously homicidal- he was Jewish, poor, and masturbated after all. Last we have Ostrog who was a dangerous criminal anyway- a likely Ripper then----even though at the time of the murders he was in jail in France?All these ,yes each of these, far more likely to be Jack the Ripper than Thomas Cutbush. Well thankyou very much Sir Melville-for that garbled piece of disinformation.

[Cap'n Jack]

True, Robert, but by 1896 he would have had to knock on his coffin.
'Cask Closed'.

[Robert]

Hi Nats

Well, the memorandum was confidential, so Macnaghten need not have feared that there would be any adverse consequences for the family members concerned. The reference to the nephew-uncle relationship, which I take it Macnaghten genuinely believed, was probably put in to warn the relevant minister "if you have to answer questions on this, remember it's hot stuff, because he was the nephew of the Supt."

AP, by 1894 Macnaghten would have had to knock at uncle Charles's front door. I don't suppose that Macnaghten had been involved in the 1891 investigation. But yes, considering the nature of the newspaper allegations, and Macnaghten's belief that Thomas was the Supt's nephew, it is amazing that he did not bother to check - unless as Natalie suggests, he did, and uncle Charles actually confirmed it in some way.

[Cap'n Jack]

I'll repeat me good self:

So it's a great shame that we cannot do what Macnaghten must have done to confirm that Charles and Thomas were indeed uncle and nephew.
That is push himself off his desk, walk the few feet from his private office to the Commissioner's Office next door and bellow at Chief Executive Superintendent Charles Henry Cutbush sat at his desk:
'Damn it Charles! Is this lunatic your nephew or not?'
Now there were only two answers that Charles could have given.

[Natalie Severn]

You know Robert,I dont think we can have it every which way with Macnaghten"s reference.
The Sun did not ,actually "name" Thomas Cutbush as Jack the Ripper in their five February 1894 articles.
But Macnaghten chose to in his 1894 Report which you will remember was written only days after these articles hit the press ,not only referred to the Sun"s suspect by name but the report also singled out and further "named "one of the yard"s very senior men,Supt Charles Cutbush ,as being the "UNCLE" of the Sun"s suspect for "Jack the Ripper".
Now if there was nothing too much to any of this Uncle relationship about Supt Charles Cutbush,you really do have to ask yourself why on earth Macnaghten should take it upon himself to have the Sun"s Ripper suspect identified by a blood tie with one of the yard"s own men? Why would he do such a thing if all Supt Charles Cutbush was was "a friend" of the family?
Think the effect such a bizzare "revelation" could have on the wife and daughter of Charles Cutbush- being associated by both the family "name" as well as a close family relationship with "Jack the Ripper" -it could have been pretty dreadful.
So why say it unless it was either true or a Macnaghten using a euphemism for some slightly off beat relationship that might be threatening to come to light?

[Robert]

Nats, it may be that Thomas called him uncle if he was a family friend. I'm not sure about the bed-hopping, which I guess we will never be able to prove. I don't think the Sun mentions this police uncle relationship, which one would have expected them to do if it were true. Macnaghten mentions it, but he's so unreliable that it's difficult to know what to make of it. Supt Cutbush's illness seems to have commenced around the time Thomas got into trouble, and the families did live reasonably close to each other. I have not so far been able to establish a link, e.g. the families don't seem to have shared the same doctor.