Leaving one's beat

[drstrange169]

> PC Pennett did send a passing civilian to fetch another PC<<

But I bet it was done with urgency and with a very specific message.

[drstrange169]

>>And why would he trust such a story?<<

Particularly if such story was told by two men with no sense of urgency or with any specific reasoning, as Mizen claimed they did. And why didn't Mizen ask any questions? It's all quite strange.

[John G]

Hi John. I believe it may have had something to do with PC Mizen not having any identification for the two men coming from the murder site other than they looked like carmen. Even if Cross had said "dead", that could mean several things - woman suffered a heart attack, old age, &c. The idea of murder may not have entered into PC Mizen's mind. And, possibly, his intention was to walk down Baker's Row to a point of observation where he could signal PC Neal and alert him to what the men told him. It's just that "dead" turned out to be "murdered" in this case, and one would expect that the police would want to know who those men are; information PC Mizen could not provide. I just wonder why the press ran with the High Ripper theory rather than POLICE ON THE SEARCH FOR TWO CARMEN

Hi Robert,

But if he wasn't being completely honest, why come up with a story about being wanted by another officer? I mean, in these circumstances he must have realized the men would contradict him. Why not simply say he was given a garbled account which he decided to investigate? Or say that he was informed that a woman was lying down, possibly dead or seriously injured, so he decided the situation merited an immediate response?

[Elamarna]

Hi John. I believe it may have had something to do with PC Mizen not having any identification for the two men coming from the murder site other than they looked like carmen. Even if Cross had said "dead", that could mean several things - woman suffered a heart attack, old age, &c. The idea of murder may not have entered into PC Mizen's mind. And, possibly, his intention was to walk down Baker's Row to a point of observation where he could signal PC Neal and alert him to what the men told him. It's just that "dead" turned out to be "murdered" in this case, and one would expect that the police would want to know who those men are; information PC Mizen could not provide. I just wonder why the press ran with the High Ripper theory rather than POLICE ON THE SEARCH FOR TWO CARMEN

Hi Robert,

Maybe because Mizen said nothimy til the Monday inquest, Neil certainly did not know of the meeting on Sunday.
By Monday Paul and Lechmere had come forward. Lechmere to the inquest and Paul to the press.
No search required.

Steve

[Joshua Rogan]

Steve? Good point about PC Pennett. It does, however, seem a strange policy. I mean, how could the officer know whether he was simply being tricked, particularly as this ruse had been used in the past?

Oops! Apologies for the mix-up, I should get my eyes tested.

Maybe Pennett's "tell him I have a job on" was some sort of code to let the other pc know it was a legitimate request for help?

[Elamarna]

I tend to think this was a simple mishearing of Hanbury Street. I could be wrong though.

No I think you are probably right. I have spent a month searching and can find nothing.
In which case the 2nd house from the end seems a good bet.

Incidently it's where I did my timings to in part 1. Was only possibility I could see.

Steve

[John G]

Considering both Cross and Paul were late for work- and therefore no doubt anxious to be on their way- as well as the fact that they'd had an unsettling experience, is it possible that PC Mizen was given a garbled account of what had happened, that genuinely confused him?

[Robert St Devil]

I think there's little doubt that PC Mizen was being somewhat economical with the truth. The question is: why?

Hi John. I believe it may have had something to do with PC Mizen not having any identification for the two men coming from the murder site other than they looked like carmen. Even if Cross had said "dead", that could mean several things - woman suffered a heart attack, old age, &c. The idea of murder may not have entered into PC Mizen's mind. And, possibly, his intention was to walk down Baker's Row to a point of observation where he could signal PC Neal and alert him to what the men told him. It's just that "dead" turned out to be "murdered" in this case, and one would expect that the police would want to know who those men are; information PC Mizen could not provide. I just wonder why the press ran with the High Ripper theory rather than POLICE ON THE SEARCH FOR TWO CARMEN

[Joshua Rogan]

I recall someone can't remember who responded to a post from David a few years back saying church street or road (memory fails me) was an older name for Eastern end of Hanbury street so Church Row could be a corruption of that or maybe a term for a road off of it.

Hmm, now you mention it, that does ring a bell. Will have to have a hunt for it.

I looked for Campbell street but so far no luck.

I tend to think this was a simple mishearing of Hanbury Street. I could be wrong though.

[John G]

I'm not sure about that, Steve. Neil didn't use a whistle to attract Thain, but signalled (silently) with his lamp. And PC Pennett did send a passing civilian to fetch another PC, rather than blow his whistle, on finding the Pinchin St torso (incidentally, did that other PC note the name of the man sent to get him?). Not to mention PC Watkins sending civilian Morris to find policemen. Although as it happened, Morris was an ex PC and had his own whistle.

Steve? Good point about PC Pennett. It does, however, seem a strange policy. I mean, how could the officer know whether he was simply being tricked, particularly as this ruse had been used in the past?

[Elamarna]

I'm not sure about that, Steve. Neil didn't use a whistle to attract Thain, but signalled (silently) with his lamp. And PC Pennett did send a passing civilian to fetch another PC, rather than blow his whistle, on finding the Pinchin St torso (incidentally, did that other PC note the name of the man sent to get him?). Not to mention PC Watkins sending civilian Morris to find policemen. Although as it happened, Morris was an ex PC and had his own whistle.

John not me Joshua.
However I am sitting on the fence on this one. I can be argued Neil did not blow his whistle has he knew there was a policeman end of street and signalled by lamp. How he would have reacted if he had not heard Thain and seen Mizen we cannot say. He may have blown a whistle. I am undecided

Steve

[Joshua Rogan]

It doesn't make sense that another officer would send two civilians to pass on a message a colleague on an adjacent beat, particularly as all he had to do was blow his whistle.

I'm not sure about that, Steve. Neil didn't use a whistle to attract Thain, but signalled (silently) with his lamp. And PC Pennett did send a passing civilian to fetch another PC, rather than blow his whistle, on finding the Pinchin St torso (incidentally, did that other PC note the name of the man sent to get him?). Not to mention PC Watkins sending civilian Morris to find policemen. Although as it happened, Morris was an ex PC and had his own whistle.

[Elamarna]

I noticed that too....do you think this was a mistake or misreporting, or was this an alternative or earlier name for Baker's Row? What are the chances that Mizen was knocking up Elizabeth Long?

Joshua

I recall someone can't remember who responded to a post from David a few years back saying church street or road (memory fails me) was an older name for Eastern end of Hanbury street so Church Row could be a corruption of that or maybe a term for a road off of it.

I looked for Campbell street but so far no luck.

Steve

[Joshua Rogan]

And it seems all used different names anyway for roads. Paul refers to Church Row

I noticed that too....do you think this was a mistake or misreporting, or was this an alternative or earlier name for Baker's Row? What are the chances that Mizen was knocking up Elizabeth Long?

[John G]

This, I feel, is an important point, John.

If the other officer could only call him away in case of an emergency, then why wouldn’t this other officer clearly pass on the emergency? Because, as you suggest, the other officer must have known he could only summon Mizen’s assistance in an emergency situation. Why would he want to run the risk that Mizen wouldn’t come as a result of not having clearly passed on what the emergency was? And how could this have made sense to Mizen?

Hi Frank,

Yes, I agree. It doesn't make sense that another officer would send two civilians to pass on a message a colleague on an adjacent beat, particularly as all he had to do was blow his whistle. And why would he trust such a story?

I think there's little doubt that PC Mizen was being somewhat economical with the truth. The question is: why?