PC Amos Simpson

[MrBarnett]

So, unless I've got it arse about:

PC 258Y
Sergeant (reserve) 26YR
Sergeant 26Y

Sergeant,after boundary change N Div/Y Div, xxN?


MrB

[mickreed]

Yes, he would have been assigned a new Divisional collar number from N divisions ledger.

Monty

Thanks Monty.

Just what I was hoping to learn.

[Lechmere]

I may be wrong but...
As an Acting Sergeant I don't think Simpson would have been given a new two digit collar number.
I have been trying to find his N collar number - I'm sure I have seen it somewhere and I am sure it is three digits - and he seems to have been an Acting Sergeant for the whole time he was in N Division.

I think the confusion over the two digit number is that he was made an officer on the Reserve for a period while he was with Y Division.
26YR
Reserve Collar numbers always seem to be two digits followed by the Division letter, followed by R.

I have been told (by the Met Archive Centre in Fulham) that being made a Reserve Officer was a sign of approval - it was a step awarded to reliable men and they were used for special events, maybe like the Special Patrol Group of years past, rather than it being a part time, semi retirement role (as it is in the Army or example).
Not that any of this gets anyone any closer to placing him in 1888.

[Paddy]

Family Ties.

Just out of interest to get a feel for Amos, he had an uncle Joe Simpson , a bricklayer and his wife Caroline and family living in Mile End Old Town West
from 1861 census 1 Church Road
1871 .. 33 Diggon Street
1881 .. 9 Wilson Street Limehouse
1891 .. Grays Thurrock, Essex

It also looks like his brother Charles was a police constable in Greenwich area in 1881. (needs checking but looks like him)
Brother Joe was a publican in Paddington and brother George lived in st Pancras.

All seemed to have moved out of London to the suburbs by 1891

Pat.....................

[mickreed]

I may be wrong but...
As an Acting Sergeant I don't think Simpson would have been given a new two digit collar number.
I have been trying to find his N collar number - I'm sure I have seen it somewhere and I am sure it is three digits - and he seems to have been an Acting Sergeant for the whole time he was in N Division.

I think the confusion over the two digit number is that he was made an officer on the Reserve for a period while he was with Y Division.
26YR
Reserve Collar numbers always seem to be two digits followed by the Division letter, followed by R.

I have been told (by the Met Archive Centre in Fulham) that being made a Reserve Officer was a sign of approval - it was a step awarded to reliable men and they were used for special events, maybe like the Special Patrol Group of years past, rather than it being a part time, semi retirement role (as it is in the Army or example).
Not that any of this gets anyone any closer to placing him in 1888.

There's a photo of him the the Begg, Fido, Skinner A to Z book. I'm away from home, so can't check it.

Is it possible to make out a number?

[Monty]

Constables mainly had 3 digit collar numbers, sergeants and inspectors 2 digits. The R meant he was in reserve.

As I said, constables mainly have 3 digits, however its not a hard n fast rule, it depends on what collar number was spare.

I have seen 2 digit constables, but never 3 digit sergeants.

As for the reserve being for reliable men, yes that is part true. Once you have. Been a beat constable, or section sergeant, for some years, and done a good job, you then were deemed to have 'paid your dues', and get moved to the cushier reserve post. New recruits would then fill your previous post.

Beat work was physically hard, young mans game, so this system is understandable.

Monty

[Monty]

So, unless I've got it arse about:

PC 258Y
Sergeant (reserve) 26YR
Sergeant 26Y

Sergeant,after boundary change N Div/Y Div, xxN?


MrB

I think 26Y is erroneous, and should be 26YR.

Monty

[mickreed]

There's a photo of him the the Begg, Fido, Skinner A to Z book. I'm away from home, so can't check it.

Is it possible to make out a number?

I've found the image on-line http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=231325

It's impossible to be sure but it seems to be as though the collar number includes a 5 (or possibly 8) and a 9

What's anyone else think?

[Monty]

Nice work Mick,

89 I say.

Monty

[mickreed]

Nice work Mick,

89 I say.

Monty

In which case, is it Amos?

[Steve S]

These stories always break at the wrong time..Was in Cheshunt for 4 days last month..........

[Monty]

In which case, is it Amos?

Now you are forcing my hand Mick,

As it stands, for me only, I don't think it is.

My reasons are not ascertained, however the helmet plate, to me, is suspicious. It looks like a Hertfordshire Police Helmet Plate instead of a Met one, and as we know that Simpson spent his entire career with the Met, not partly with Herts constabulary as cited in the family story, this draws doubt, for me, on the photo.

Monty

[Monty]

By comparison, a Met helmet plate of the period.

Monty

[GUT]

G'day Monty

For I am really on the fence on this one.

To me the bottom of the emblem looks more like Hertfordshire plate.

But the top of the crown looks open like the MET plate.

[Monty]

G'day Monty

For I am really on the fence on this one.

To me the bottom of the emblem looks more like Hertfordshire plate.

But the top of the crown looks open like the MET plate.

The difference is in the Brunswick star, which is smaller than the Mets, and the larger garter in the Herts plate, making it look rounder.

As I said, to me the photo doesn't sit right. I may be wrong.

Monty


PS Not that the photo has any relevance really.