PC Amos Simpson

[Amanda]

Amos Simpson...

Hi All,

Spent last night doing a little digging & found an article in the 'Illustrated Police News' mentioning Amos Simpson arresting a thief in 1876.

His police number is given as 26Y. Does anyone know if these numbers changed if the policeman moved districts or had promotion, or would they keep the same number throughout their career?
If anyone can answer it might help me dig a little deeper into where he was living in 1888.

Amanda

[Amanda Sumner]

I've discovered that Amos was living in Camden in 1881 at 21 Stanley building. Ten years later he is living with wife Jane at Gews (?) Corner, Edmonton, Cheshunt. I've looked in the electoral rolls but can't find him, so we don't know yet where he lived in 1888.

[S.Brett]

Hello,

Interestingly; on World Vital Records is a link to “the Simpson family”:

http://www.worldvitalrecords.com/person/Amos-Simpson/137073771-3019937

Amos Simpson (born 1846, Sudbury/Suffolk); Parents:

John Simpson, Mary Simpson

Amos had seven siblings:

George (1846-?)
Elizabeth
Sarah
Mary
Joseph
John
William
James

There; for Amos and George the year of birth is marked as 1846. Twins?

In 1867; George married Jane. They had seven children.

Here, I found a PC George Simpson:

http://www.geni.com/projects/British-Policemen-19th-Century/2662

This George died 1898, aged 38. But Amos´s brother George was born 1846. In 1898, he was already 52 years old.

[Amanda Sumner]

Hello,

Interestingly; on World Vital Records is a link to “the Simpson family”:

http://www.worldvitalrecords.com/person/Amos-Simpson/137073771-3019937

Amos Simpson (born 1846, Sudbury/Suffolk); Parents:

John Simpson, Mary Simpson

Amos had seven siblings:

George (1846-?)
Elizabeth
Sarah
Mary
Joseph
John
William
James

There; for Amos and George the year of birth is marked as 1846. Twins?

In 1867; George married Jane. They had seven children.

Here, I found a PC George Simpson:

http://www.geni.com/projects/British-Policemen-19th-Century/2662

This George died 1898, aged 38. But Amos´s brother George was born 1846. In 1898, he was already 52 years old.

Hi Brett, are you sure this is the right Amos? Our Amos was born in 1847, Acton, Suffolk. I might be mistaken, but I don't think yours is the right Amos.

Amanda

[Amanda]

I've discovered that Amos was living in Camden in 1881 at 21 Stanley building. Ten years later he is living with wife Jane at Gews (?) Corner, Edmonton, Cheshunt. I've looked in the electoral rolls but can't find him, so we don't know yet where he lived in 1888.

Hi Amanda,

Yes, if you see my earlier post, you'll see that Stanley Buildings are right by St.Pancras station. Therefore it would have been easy for Amos to jump on the train to Whitechapel, that's IF he was still living there in 1888.

Any thoughts on his police number? I'll try some different resources.

Amanda

[S.Brett]

Hi Brett, are you sure this is the right Amos? Our Amos was born in 1847, Acton, Suffolk. I might be mistaken, but I don't think yours is the right Amos.

Amanda

Hi Amanda,

I am not sure. There are two accounts of this Amos Simpson (and his relatives). Just looking at the second account and there he´s born about 1847 in Acton. In both cases the same parents (John, born 1817; Mary, born about 1821; see Post 21 Panderoona) and siblings.

Karsten.

[Panderoona]

Great background , Panderoona and Nashwan , but what we need to know is where Amos was living and working in the autumn of 1888.

MrB

I know, and that seems to be the difficult bit.
Amos appears to have retired 1892/3 according to the National Archives Met Police Pension Records. (Worth noting here is prior to 1890 pensions were only given on a discretionary basis.) That of course brings us no closer to knowing where he was in 1888 though.

[Panderoona]

woah!

Henry Joseph Simpson and Ellen Simpson children of Amos Simpson and Jane were both baptised at Cheshunt Herts on 19th June 1885

He was listed as being born 7.5.1877 and she 21.2.1881. Its not cast iron proof Amos had moved to Cheshunt by 1885 but I think its a massive pointer. He was still listed as a Met Officer in 1891, so was still working, but did he work closer to home?

[Robert]

Hi Panderoona

Great find. Maybe Monty can tell us how far policemen were expected to travel to get to work, i.e. did they try to send policemen to stations near their homes, or did they expect the policemen to move to be closer to their stations or else face a long journey to work?

[Panderoona]

Well N Division, which Simpson was working in at the time of the murders stretches far enough north for him to work pretty close to home in Cheshunt.

For me its case closed. He was nowhere near Mitre Square.

[MrBarnett]

I suppose a trip to Herts record office is the only answer. To be sure you'd have to find the electorol roll entries for 1888/89/90.

Anyone live near enough?

MrB .

[mickreed]

G'day Gut,

Couldn't agree more. The trouble is, what we don't seem to know is where Amos was in 1888. He was in Islington/Pancras in the early 1880's, and had moved to the suburbs by 1891. If he was living and working in Cheshunt in 1888, then the chances of his being officially or unofficially involved in any of the WM are pretty remote. But if he was still living and working in the southern area of N division, then the City and H division were only a short walk away.

MrB

See the recent posts in the shawl thread. A better than even chance he was in Cheshunt no later than 1885.

[MrBarnett]

See the recent posts in the shawl thread. A better than even chance he was in Cheshunt no later than 1885.

Thanks Mick,

I am keeping an eye on both threads as well as the one on JTRF.

Looks more than likely he was in Cheshunt in ' 88.

However, if there is any truth in the 'special duties' story, then
perhaps his home address isn't such a barrier.

He may well have known Abberline personally (24Y/26Y) and have been requested by him. Conjecture only, I know, but we shouldn't rule him out altogether if we find him living in Cheshunt in ' 88


MrB

[mickreed]

Well N Division, which Simpson was working in at the time of the murders stretches far enough north for him to work pretty close to home in Cheshunt.

For me its case closed. He was nowhere near Mitre Square.

I think you're right. Shouldn't be hard to narrow it down. If rate books for Cheshunt survive for the 1880s, he ought to show as, presumably, an occupier, if not an owner.

Herts Records Office would be the place presumably

[moonbegger]

Hi,

Henry Joseph Simpson died in 1943. He had married Bessie Emma Stearns, sister to Morris William, in 1907. Her death was reigstered in the Saffron Walden District in 1968. In the 1911 Census they were living in Cheshunt, Middlesex with no children listed as then living. The Birth Indexes list the mother's maiden name from September quarter 1911 onwards, but none are registered to a Simpson-Stearns pairing.

There's a website detailing the Stearns family;

Thank you Nashwan for such an informative reply ..

I am curious now to find out if the Ellen G Simpson living (1945) a few doors down from Lawende's address in Mitchinson Rd ( then Norfolk Rd ) may have been related to Amos ?

its a very tentative link , but if Lawende picked up the shawl near mitre sq , and passed it on to a friend or neighbor down his street , then years later it finds its way into the hands of Amos or his family living in the same street .
Is this too far beyond the realms of possibility .. I think it might just be but it would still be a curious coincidence if Ellen G Simpson is some kind of relation to Amos !

cheers all ,

moonbegger .