Access to Scotland Yard Files

[Phil Carter]

.....and the mentions of the Ripper in those files is almost certainly pertaining to suspects of little or no importance at all.

RH

Hello Rob,

You would not have said that if your sacred "Kosminski" suspect had had his infamous name written into these massive archives that contain over 30,000 entries in them would you? ...Yours is a very poor excuse to worm Kosminski, Druitt et al into the "serious" suspects league.

Nope.. not on your Nelly my old china...no evidence of either exists. Not in any file, anywhere....ever....

Conclusion?

"...suspects of little or no importance at all"



Phil

[pinkmoon]

There is a mention in one book that a copy was in the home office files. At the moment I cannot find the actual reference but to the best of my recollection the comment was made by another police official.

This supports to hypothesis that it was written for the Home Secretary in case questions were asked in Parliament about Cutbush.

Hi gut,I don't think the memo was ever meant for publication because it was quite libellous to say the least.I think Sir Melville had some information which he genuinely believed so by carefull wording he points the finger at Druitt by saying the police never suspected Druitt but his family did it dosnt leave him open to ridicule if anything ever came to light which proved Druitt couldn't have been our killer.I think ostrog was thrown in to make up the numbers so the sinister foreigner theory was covered and kosmonski coverd the local Looney theory quite well and Druitt coverd the mad doctor angle .

[Phil Carter]

Hello GUT,

As far as I am aware, there is no Home Office copy of the MM in their files. That would be a major revelation, infact.

Afraid to say that any mention of a Home Office copy in any book is incorrect.


Phil

[robhouse]

Hello Rob,

You would not have said that if your sacred "Kosminski" suspect had had his infamous name written into these massive archives that contain over 30,000 entries in them would you? ...Yours is a very poor excuse to worm Kosminski, Druitt et al into the "serious" suspects league.

Nope.. not on your Nelly my old china...no evidence of either exists. Not in any file, anywhere....ever....

Conclusion?

"...suspects of little or no importance at all"



Phil

Phil,

What does this discussion have to do with Kozminski? Answer: nothing. Sadly, you are not able to back up what you have said, so you resort to changing the suspect and blathering on about an actual suspect who was mentioned by the top SY officials who actually were working on the case.

Didn't you retire from the boards? Why are you even on here at all?

RH

[robhouse]

Incidentally, at one point, I was interested in the SB files... that was back when I di not understand what they were. After I read about them (Clutterbuck etc), I learned that the files were not likely to have much relevance to the Ripper murders. That does not mean that it is impossible that a real "lead" in the Ripper murders would have come from an informant who was recorded in the ledgers. But it is much more likely that the mentions of the Ripper in the ledgers were of little importance. The MET fielded hundreds of so-called "leads" like this, and most turned out to be worthless... neighbors suspicious of neighbors, etc.

If a legitimate suspect's name HAD shown up in the ledger, it might have given us insight into how they came to police attention in the first place... ie. via an informant.

Why am I even bothering explaining this?

RH

[spyglass]

And the Special Branch was not (to my knowledge) actively involved in the Ripper investigations.

Rob H

Hi,
Not so if memory serves....wasnt Littlejohn in charge of the suspect survalience in Batty Street ?

[GUT]

G'day Pinkmoon

Hi gut,I don't think the memo was ever meant for publication because it was quite libellous to say the least.I think Sir Melville had some information which he genuinely believed so by carefull wording he points the finger at Druitt by saying the police never suspected Druitt but his family did it dosnt leave him open to ridicule if anything ever came to light which proved Druitt couldn't have been our killer.I think ostrog was thrown in to make up the numbers so the sinister foreigner theory was covered and kosmonski coverd the local Looney theory quite well and Druitt coverd the mad doctor angle .

No not for general publication and as I corrected not in a book but in the Pall Mall Gazette, Aberline refers to a Home Office memo so I am willing to accept that Home Offce was recipient of the memo.

That raises another question though was it MM Aberconway or some third version.

[robhouse]

Hi,
Not so if memory serves....wasnt Littlejohn in charge of the suspect survalience in Batty Street ?

Are you talking about Littlechild?

[GUT]

G'day Phil

Hello GUT,

As far as I am aware, there is no Home Office copy of the MM in their files. That would be a major revelation, infact.

Afraid to say that any mention of a Home Office copy in any book is incorrect.


Phil

So was Aberline wrong, or dd the Gazette miss-quote him.

[Trevor Marriott]

Rob

Please define legitimate suspect?

Because you and and many others do not understand what there needs to be from an evidential perspective to be able to define someone as a suspect in the first instance likely or prime. I don't even think the police in 1888 did either which is why 126 years later you and others are championing names that were mentioned by the police back then as now being prime suspects

A person with a mental history who lives and works in the areas where the murders were committed on that basis alone cannot be deemed to be a suspect.

A person who finds a body in the street is not a suspect otherwise everyone who found a body would be a suspect making it ridiculous situation.

At best we now have several persons who could come into the category of likely suspects nothing more than that and many that are of interest.

Out of the suspects currently being talked about the latest and the most ridiculous one is Cross/Lechmere those on here who are talking him up really do need to get a reality check

[GUT]

G'day Trevor

A person who finds a body in the street is not a suspect otherwise everyone who found a body would be a suspect making it ridiculous situation.

No matter how many victims we accept, someone had to find each of them so a lot of suspects there.

[Monty]

Hi,
Not so if memory serves....wasnt Littlejohn in charge of the suspect survalience in Batty Street ?

This was surviellance, on Tumblety, in connection to Fenian activities and not the Whitechapel murders.

Monty

[Debra A]

Hello Rob,

I believe you will find reference to it somewhere on CB. Respectfully, I haven't got the time to look for you.

However...

Under a specific entry titled “Jack the Ripper” the entry reads “The name given to Wilson at Bushmills" *


you may find it and more on...the Secret Special Branch Ledgers decision notice page.

http://forum.casebook.org/archive/index.php/t-5857.html

(feeling generous :-) )



Phil

* My emphasis

The entry you cite actually says 'The name given to suspect Wilson at "Bushmills" '
This shows that 'Wilson' is on Special Branch radar as a person suspected of being involved in Secret Society activity or a similar reason and his whereabouts and activities are being logged by Special Branch through informants and police surveilance. This is why he was mentioned in SB files to start with.

The Ripper mention is most likely referencing information received from an informant that Wilson is known by the name of "Jack the Ripper" at "Bushmills"
That he is known by others as 'Jack the Ripper' could be the informant trying to convey an aspect of Wilson's personality/reputation/standing within whatever group he belongs to.

[Monty]

Special Branch had no reason to be directly involved in the Whitechapel murders investigation, as H Division CID and CO where dealing with it, as per protocol.

Any information on the murders obtained by Special Branch during unrelated enquiries would be passed to H Div CID, the same stood with City of London police, therefore the odd suspect name would appear in Special Branch records, as they would as notes in City police, or any Borough police records.

Does this mean Special Branch had deep inside knowledge of who the Ripper was? No, no more than H Div CID or CO.

And the difference between Special Branch and Littlechild, the individual, must be noted. Littlechild moved in broader circles.

Monty

[spyglass]

[QUOTE=robhouse;298561]Are you talking about Littlechild?[/QUOT

Sorry....yes I ment Littlechild.